Wibo night storage heaters

trevorpayne1

Are you still around Cardew? Our house is quite modern and well insulated but the standard storage heaters we have are expensive and do not provide heat all day.

Have any better alternatives turned up in the last 2 years?

Best wishes

Trevor

Cardew

trevorpayne1 wrote: »

Are you still around Cardew? Our house is quite modern and well insulated but the standard storage heaters we have are expensive and do not provide heat all day.

Have any better alternatives turned up in the last 2 years?

Best wishes

Trevor

Sadly there will never be any better electrical heaters*, if you mean higher heat output for a given running cost. All electrical heaters(including Wibo and my Gran's pre-war 1/2/3 bar heater) are 100% efficient.

The objection to WIBO and others of that ilk is that they cost a forune and their adverts imply they give out more heat for your buck - and they don't.

There really is a case to be made for electrical heating - particularly in small properties and where the occupants are out of the house all day. The installation costs, if you avoid these hyped up systems, can be low, with timers and remote controls you can have a flexible system, and they are virtually maintenance free.

The problem with Storage heaters has always been their inability to store heat efficiently during the day - they leak heat and run out in the evening. I have heard claims that modern storage heaters have better heat retention; but not seen this confirmed in tests. Given the huge amount of heat required to be stored, it is difficult to envisage heater construction with sufficient insulation to retain the heat.

* Leaving aside heat pumps.

harryhound

If you are in a well insulated home and it is heated by radiant electrical heating, you feel warmer at an air temperature perhaps 3 or 4 degrees colder than in a small Victorian detached house with 9 inch solid walls and draughts.
The room will not be so stratified with hot ceilings and cold suspended floors and unlike the cold walls of the Victorian construction the surface of the wall will be nearly the same as the air temperature in the room, finally the infra red radiation will allow you to position yourself to get a sense of warmth from the electrical heating.

As the heat loss is roughly proportional to the excess temperature, such a home could be run at a lower internal temperature than the (say) gas heated Victorian house.

Nosmig

I've tried to follow all the postings, but there's a lot to read going back over the years.

In July (2010) trevorpayne1 asked "Have any better alternatives turned up in the last 2 years?"

Night storage heaters are used in many properties and while they can be said to be economical by using cheap overnight tariffs, they lose out when it comes to control - ie how much electricity is taken in when the 'input' setting is low - and what can I do when tomorrow comes, when it's either hotter or colder?

Recently, I stumbled over a couple of web sites that re-stirred my interest - the first was
http://www.cornwallheatingsolutions.co.uk and that led me to http://www.eltiheating.com as the first site quoted the 'Elti' system.

It's pretty persuasive stuff - though I can't see much about prices - and it would be good to have those with a better understanding of electic heating pros and cons to comment. It certainly appears to offer more control; but is it a more efficient was of using electricity to provide central heating.

Who can help?

harryhound

I'm no electricity expert BUT:
Night storage heaters use night time nuclear electricity, subsidised by cold war bomb production and government guaranteed decommissioning and 150,000 year waste storage arrangements.
Modern night storage heaters have an external temperature feed so they can respond in some way to the changes in the weather
Most owners cannot be bothered to twiddle the heat charge up settings on a daily basis.
The next step would be to give the heater a feed from the weather forecast and more to the point the sunshine forecast and link that to a heuristics computer program !
(A window facing the sun is ""U" negative" it puts heat into your home even though it is cold outside.)

Turning to the German electric radiators:
They might manage to run at a higher temperature than the (say) 65-70 degrees of a water filled gas fired radiator, thus giving them more radiant output. But only a little as people would be burned by them otherwise. With plenty of radiant heat it is possible to feel comfortable in a room say 3 degrees cooler than the 20 degrees needed to feel comfortable when sedentary. BUT electricity is expensive; with old fashioned power stations less than 30 percent of the heat in the fuel (coal oil) arrives in your home as electricity. The rest gets thrown away up cooling towers or heat the toes of birds on the wires.
So it does not matter how much vendors of electric heating blather on ELECTRICITY CANNOT COMPETE WITH AN 85% + EFFICIENT CONDENSING GAS BOILER (unless it is a heat pump with a 3 or 4 times multiplier of the electricity in to heat power out).

stephenmrot

When you read all of these posts it makes me wonder! Do none of the people here think that different companies engineer products in different ways? Look at Mercedes / Porsche / VW/ Ford all have cars with similiar engines from a power point of view but there are huge differences in performance! Anyone can knock products these days but I would ask has anybody here had actual experience of these heaters-comfort-speed of heating up? etc?

Cardew

stephenmrot wrote: »

When you read all of these posts it makes me wonder! Do none of the people here think that different companies engineer products in different ways? Look at Mercedes / Porsche / VW/ Ford all have cars with similiar engines from a power point of view but there are huge differences in performance! Anyone can knock products these days but I would ask has anybody here had actual experience of these heaters-comfort-speed of heating up? etc?

Nice to see you back and trying again! Incidentally you didn't answer the question about you having a vested interest in these or similar products.

Your point about cars is, frankly, stupid!

In cars the efficiency of car engines varies, as does their economy, aerodynamics, transmission, weight and a host of other factors.

The central issue concerning electrical heaters, is they are all 100% efficient.

So, as said countless times, a ten pound heater will produce exactly the same amount of heat, for the same running cost, as these WIBO heaters costing many hundreds of pounds.

The laws of physics haven't changed since your last post.

P.S.

The good thing about bringing this thread back to life is that people 'Googling' WIBO will come across this thread.

thedentist

Can i just make a note, ive read the notes above & feel i want to put my opinion over, I too was looking for a solution to warm my home, we live in the sticks & rely solely on electricity for power etc..having done alot of research we decided to have a Wibo consultant visit, after the initial shock of the price we decided to go for 1 heater in a room, we could spread the payments on interest free so it worked for us well. All i can say is that the heater does actually work extremelly well & is alot cheaper to run than our storage heater we had before, so well infact we will be purchasing more heaters for around our home in the very near future, bare in mind though they are not cheap, but i guess you get what you pay for, hope this is helpfull.

Cardew

thedentist wrote: »

Can i just make a note, ive read the notes above & feel i want to put my opinion over, I too was looking for a solution to warm my home, we live in the sticks & rely solely on electricity for power etc..having done alot of research we decided to have a Wibo consultant visit, after the initial shock of the price we decided to go for 1 heater in a room, we could spread the payments on interest free so it worked for us well. All i can say is that the heater does actually work extremelly well & is alot cheaper to run than our storage heater we had before, so well infact we will be purchasing more heaters for around our home in the very near future, bare in mind though they are not cheap, but i guess you get what you pay for, hope this is helpfull.

It always seems to be first time posters joining MSE to praise these overpriced heaters.;)

Nobody doubts that they might work well. However as said countless times, a ten pound heater will produce exactly the same amount of heat, for the same running cost, as these WIBO heaters costing many hundreds of pounds.

Vibrant

I replied to a Wibo leaflet a some years ago, as I was unhappy with my storage heaters performance, as I never got home from work until 8pm and they were cold.
I was a little wary of returning the leaflet, as no prices were mentioned. And the lady who rang me to arrange a home visit by a representative, wouldn't give me an answer on prices, despite my saying that I wouldn't pay hundreds for a heater.

The rep did a good demonstration and I was impressed by the build quality, which was far higher than any other heater I have seen (I was an engineer before I became a gardener). But I wasn't convinced by the increased heat output arguments, as 1 KW, is 1 KW no matter what you do with it.
The clay storage system seemed to work well, but I was sceptical, that it was any better than an oil storage system, as they only serve to produce a more even and comfortable output than a normal convector heater.

I might have bought some Wibo heaters, as they were nice looking and well built. But when he mentioned the price I nearly fell out of my chair laughing, it was in the thousands for three heaters. I think the rep knew he wasn't going to make a sale, after I pointed out that I could get gas radiators and boiler fitted for half the price he wanted.

It's a shame they are so expensive, as they would be a nice system. But they cant compete with oil filled radiators, on price.