Wibo night storage heaters

PasturesNew

cheekyjones wrote: »

We already pay about £2800 a year on our electricity bills. 12 rooms, all electrical.

Why do you heat 12 rooms when you can only be in one at a time?

Have you looked at wall-mounted, water-filled radiators? All they need is a regular plug socket.

http://www.intheatingsystems.co.uk/

You could contact them and see if it's safe/advisable to fit a regular 24 hour timer to the plug.

Cardew

cheekyjones,

Welcome to the forum.

I am not familiar with all the heating systems on the market, and frankly nobody needs to be to understand the basic principles. As stated above this statement sums it up.

As has been stated time and time again, all electrical heating is 100% efficient in turning electrical energy into heat. So your £30 heater of any type produces exactly the same amount of heat.

So your husband's view of just getting panel heaters makes sense if you intend to abandon storage heating.

The overall point I am trying to make is that these electrical heating systems that cost huge amounts of money are sold with advertising that they somehow produce more heat for your money, and that is simply not true.

Storage heating obviously produces heat cheaper because they run on cheaper electricity. However as is discussed endlessly in this forum they do have big disadvantages in that they lack the ability to produce(or not) heat when it is required and of course you pay extra for all your daytime electricity.

Also with E7 night rates having risen dramatically in relation to 'normal' tariff rates, storage heating is not as an attractive proposition as it was even a couple of years ago.

The only electrical heating system that offers low running costs is a heat pump. However a good GSHP(ground source heat pump) system cost a great deal to install and there are a lot of cowboys operating in this field.

The only advice I would really give you is to think very carefully before spending a lot of money on one of these systems that produce no more heat than the humble £30 oil filled radiator.

P.S.
You can delete your duplicate post by going to edit.

cheekyjones

Hi there,

Thank you very much for your prompt reply.. I have printed the storage heater comparison page from the link you sent me. The study is done with economy 7 tariff (we will soon be on economy 10). Also it shows that the rooms remain a little warm with storage heaters. So the top up on peak electricity doesn't start from a very low room temperature.

We live in an old cottage with solid walls... No cavity... Rooms gets cold very quickly, and very cold! We would need at least 2kw electric radiators to feel comfortable in most rooms. So it would be more expensive than the study provided on this site. Or may be I don't understand it very well?

I know what you mean about heating some rooms when you are not in them. It seems pointless. But I am in most days, all day, with a baby and a toddler. I can't have huge drops of temperature in a minimum of 6 rooms. It is a funny shaped house. You have to cross some rooms to get to others...

That said, is it ok anyway to not heat some parts of the house at all for hours and then heat them later in the evening? I thought
1- it would take a long time to heat a very cold room (resulting in lack of comfort) and
2- there could be condensation forming on the walls. Am I wrong?

These radiators seem to provide duo heat (convected and radiant) like Wibo. They also seem to be highly controllable. So if they are more economical to install they could be our answer. I will try and find out.

Many thanks... More suggestions welcome!

cheekyjones

Hello Cardew and thank you for your time.

I understand what you are saying about the £30 oil filled radiators... But it seemed to me that Wibo (and may be other products out there) had 2 heat sources achieving independant results. The tungsten was giving instant heat whilst the clay was more for the slow release, even after the heater was off. Plus, because of the highly controllable features, you could therefore have them coming on and off, saving this way electricity whilst still being warm. I am French you see, I HAVE to be warm!!!!

I suppose if I could find highly controllable standard radiators then it would be good... My head is spinning!

Thanks for the tip! I deleted the duplicate. It was so late! Time flies when you are having fun!

Cardew

cheekyjones wrote: »

The tungsten was giving instant heat whilst the clay was more for the slow release, even after the heater was off. Plus, because of the highly controllable features, you could therefore have them coming on and off, saving this way electricity whilst still being warm.

That is just advertising patter I am afraid.

You get EXACTLY the same amount of heat from any electrical heater.

A fan heater will provide almost instant heat, and an oil filled radiator has residual heating properties.

A good control system is certainly more convenient and vitually all heaters have a thermostat to control the heating in a room; and you can have plug in timers on any heater.

stevehead

Hey Cardew when are you going to get fed up telling people the same thing over and over?
You're right, they're wrong - self deluded or ill informed.
There should be an Electric Heating WiKi that the 'I've found these green eco krypton filled electric radiators' posters are directed to.

Cardew

stevehead wrote: »

Hey Cardew when are you going to get fed up telling people the same thing over and over?
You're right, they're wrong - self deluded or ill informed.
There should be an Electric Heating WiKi that the 'I've found these green eco krypton filled electric radiators' posters are directed to.

You are welcome to take over for a while!!

The problem is that there are so many vested interests posting on these boards and the adverts are convincing to the layman.

The profits for the people fitting these systems must be immense.

I am afraid that I know little about green kryptonite filled radiators as I am not allowed to go near that mineral!

stevehead

cheekyjones wrote: »

I now feel totally stuck. I don't know what to do and would welcome your impartial advice and comments over Wibo's 2 heat sources. Even if you probably feel you have already explained it... And do you know of any other brands that would have this easy radio controlling thermostat/timer. Could you also recommend other good brands for storage heaters other than Dimplex? As they are not the cheapest...

Thank you...

You could try having a couple of aircon units such as the mitsubishi hyperinverter or toshiba Super Daiseikai installed in the areas you spend the most time in.
These will give you tons of heat, remote controlled, on demand.
They cost 1/5th .... YES ... 1/5th of the cost to run compared to any other electrical heating.
You REALLY do get something for nothing.
You put in 1 kilowatt of electricity for 1 hour
You get out 5 OR MORE kilowatts of heat for an hour

Google it - and look out for the value known as the COP. This is the ratio of what you get out compared to 1 unit of power put in to run it. The abovementioned systems have a COP of 5 or greater.

harryhound

stevehead wrote: »

You could try having a couple of aircon units such as the mitsubishi hyperinverter or toshiba Super Daiseikai installed in the areas you spend the most time in.
These will give you tons of heat, remote controlled, on demand.
They cost 1/5th .... YES ... 1/5th of the cost to run compared to any other electrical heating.
You REALLY do get something for nothing.
You put in 1 kilowatt of electricity for 1 hour
You get out 5 OR MORE kilowatts of heat for an hour

Google it - and look out for the value known as the COP. This is the ratio of what you get out compared to 1 unit of power put in to run it. The abovementioned systems have a COP of 5 or greater.

The poster with the freezing cottage FIRST needs to explain to us the structure of the cottage, so we have some vague idea of why it loses heat so fast.
Quite frankly in the current and future economic and fiscal environment it is uninhabitable (cut 20% of carbon by 2020 ! pie in the sky)
Only after we have discussed the options for DRAUGHT PROOFING & INSULATING the property should we begin to discuss how to heat it. The other way round is cart and horse stuff.

Most people I know in cottages are going for log stoves in the living room, having been stung by electricity/calorgas/oil cost and potentially supply problems. The waiting list for a decent log stove is next Easter.

When we get onto the exotics of heat pumps, with their Coefficient of Performance (COP) This is the ratio of electricity put in to heat extracted into the home. I simply do not believe it. IMHO a (noisy?) air conditioning unit given the posh name of Air Source Heat Pump will not give a COP of 5 to make the heat 20% of the cost of the electricity used to produce it. For a start today my outside temperature is 2 degrees OK there is a useful bonus of latent energy as the mist outside turns into ice inside the unit, but that has to be regularly defrosted by reversing the cycle?
Can someone provide independent tests of this miracle Japanese designed technology made in China (?) for this COP of 5 ? I would think you would be lucky to get three in a UK winter.
Heat pumps also suffer from the problem of being less efficient just when you need the most heat, so you have to resort to some other top up heating. (Log burner?).

stevehead

harryhound wrote: »

The poster with the freezing cottage FIRST needs to explain to us the structure of the cottage, so we have some vague idea of why it loses heat so fast.
Quite frankly in the current and future economic and fiscal environment it is uninhabitable (cut 20% of carbon by 2020 ! pie in the sky)

Well I've cut my Gas Bill from £275 2007 winter quarter to £85 now and cut by Electric Bill from £350 to £220 over the same period. My house is well lit, and is maintained at 22-24 degrees throughout. That's more than a 20% reduction in Carbon emissions from this house. This has been acheived by a combination of
Insulation (Cavity Wall / Loft / Double Glazing / Chimney Cap+Block / Draught Proofing)
Eliminating Waste (LED Lights throughout / Standby Killers / hand washing dishes / closing doors / low energy computing)
Replacing 20 yr old gas boiler with ashp's
I also drive a Prius. And have 2 electric bikes.
Make an effort people!!

harryhound wrote: »

Only after we have discussed the options for DRAUGHT PROOFING & INSULATING the property should we begin to discuss how to heat it. The other way round is cart and horse stuff.

Agreed 100% but that's not the topic

harryhound wrote: »

Most people I know in cottages are going for log stoves in the living room, having been stung by electricity/calorgas/oil cost and potentially supply problems. The waiting list for a decent log stove is next Easter.

Humanity has been burning woodforever. If log stoves were a practical form of heating, why have we gone to such great lengths over the last 250 years to replace them? For aspirational country wannabee's only. Can u imaging the 60 million people in Britain burning wood?

harryhound wrote: »

When we get onto the exotics of heat pumps, with their Coefficient of Performance (COP) This is the ratio of electricity put in to heat extracted into the home. I simply do not believe it. IMHO a (noisy?) air conditioning unit given the posh name of Air Source Heat Pump will not give a COP of 5 to make the heat 20% of the cost of the electricity used to produce it. For a start today my outside temperature is 2 degrees OK there is a useful bonus of latent energy as the mist outside turns into ice inside the unit, but that has to be regularly defrosted by reversing the cycle?

Heat Pumps are not exotic. There's 1 or 2 in every home in the land (Fridge & freezer). Not rocket science you know.
So you don't believe the COP? Well good for you! I do.

OK then... lets swallow the line that we should all buy a new gas boiler then. They claim 90% efficiency - believe that? They can be, but a lot of the time aren't. These condensing boilers are stuffed with electronics and mechanical devices in a hostile environment - that's exotic! Then there's the servicing costs; the 100 watt pump - I can heat a room for that! I can heat my house for less than the cost of a BG maintanance contract.
I've not yet noticed my systems going into a defrost cycle. They must have by now, but the house is warm so what's it matter? I have an KWh energy monitor on each of my own aircon units, and I check them daily to see what they've used. I sometimes punch the air when I see just how little that really is.

harryhound wrote: »

Can someone provide independent tests of this miracle Japanese designed technology made in China (?) for this COP of 5 ? I would think you would be lucky to get three in a UK winter.
Heat pumps also suffer from the problem of being less efficient just when you need the most heat, so you have to resort to some other top up heating. (Log burner?).

If you hit a COP of 3 then you match the cost of using A Rated Gas Heating. Anything more is a bonus.
What we could do with is more user feedback on these forums about just how good these systems really are.
I have NEVER used my old GSH since installing ASHP's. I kept it just in case though... just in case Mitsubishi were lying.
BTW I work in IT, and have no commercial interest in aircon whatsoever.