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Cca Requests Updates Please
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Just received a letter from Barclaycard advising me that they have fuffiled my CCA request for a former Goldfish account (12+2 expired a month ago) by sending me monthly statements and making their terms & conditions avalable to me! Vaguely threatens legal action which should prove interesting if it ever comes to fruition!
They can vaguely threaten what they like, Leixlip - but they can't actually do anything. :rolleyes:I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
Thanks Rog & Gargrave - I've had similar problems with them in the past regarding a B/Card account they couldn't supply a CCa for. Interestingly their latest letter almost reads word for word to one I had from Halifax/HBOS last year - perhaps they share template letters too!0
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Hello all
Just an update - received a 3 page legal jargon letter from Barclaycard in response to my notice of default sent 12th August after they sent generic T&Cs and nowt else.
http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx46/gargrave50/barclayard%20legal%20ltr/
One bit I found really interesting was
"The definition of "executed agreement" refers to a document embodying the terms of the regulated agreement. When this is read with Regulation 7 - for agreements that have been varied - A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WOULD NOT EMBODY ITS TERMS. A copy of the agreement as varied would embody its terms."
The bit I've put in capitals surely illustrates the fact that the original executed agreement would not embody its terms and therefore is unenforceable by this very point? Perhaps that, or my brain has turned to CCA mush.
What should be my response to this? Thanks in advanceLBM 30/6/9 Unsecured debts [STRIKE]£25,323.48[/STRIKE] £0 :T Debt free
Left for life Down Under 4th August 2012 - living frugally and have learned my lessons :j:j:j:j0 -
Shameless bump for help with scary Barclaycard letter :eek:LBM 30/6/9 Unsecured debts [STRIKE]£25,323.48[/STRIKE] £0 :T Debt free
Left for life Down Under 4th August 2012 - living frugally and have learned my lessons :j:j:j:j0 -
gargrave50 wrote: »- A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WOULD NOT EMBODY ITS TERMS.
The THAT agreement would NOT be enforceable.
Neither would a 'varied' agreement - particularily one of which you were not aware - be enforceable.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0 -
Thanks Rog,
Do I just send another "dispute" letter? Thanks again in advance, I just don't want to b*lls this up by sending the wrong thingLBM 30/6/9 Unsecured debts [STRIKE]£25,323.48[/STRIKE] £0 :T Debt free
Left for life Down Under 4th August 2012 - living frugally and have learned my lessons :j:j:j:j0 -
hello! good to see how you are getting on
8 months - still no CCA from car finance company.......infact no contact from them at all!TOTAL: (1.9.2008) £[strike]20,971.00[/strike] (02.12.10)£11,006.07£9,262.93 Paid off (Since LBM)Debt Free Date [strike]2021[/strike] 2015Savings £100 Dec NSD 11/20, Sealed pot challenger 1043:xmassign:0 -
Looking for a bit of help please. Having asked for CCA from cc companies have received back from Clydesdale and Monument. Monument have sent back a copy of a rapid reply card which has signature on and also enclosed a copy of terms and conditions, these are the up to date T&C as they have late payment fees etc at £12. This account was opened in 2003.
Clydesdale have sent a signed application form and states in the letter that they have sent the T&C from 1999 when account was opened. Reading the T&C they also have late payment fees etc of £12. Are these agreements enforceable? Also both T&C have address that I stay at now not the address I stayed at when accounts were opened. Thanks for any help/advice you can give:idea: Had lbm, switched it off too many times. Now am trying to sort my life out :T:T
:T Proud Supporter of Niddy :T0 -
With reference to my post(s) in this thread (3795, 3798), could anyone take a look over my proposed response and tell me if there are any major boo boos.
Either that, or it is possible I've been repetitive as have cut and pasted from many template letters to cobble this together. Perhaps I say too much? All help appreciated xx Julie
Barclaycard Mastercard
Customer Relations department
Barclaycard House
PO Box 5592
Northampton
NN4 1ZY
Dear Sirs,
Card number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974
FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.
Thank you for your letter of 17th August 2009 received today. It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).
On 25th July 2009 I made a formal request for a true copy of the executed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 12th August 2009. You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. You have provided me a copy of some terms and conditions, and I have previously identified serious flaws in your response (refer to my letter 12th August 2009).
Interestingly, your letter clearly supplies the “documentary evidence” you request in order for us to expect a full and individual response regarding this matter. I am entitled to question your compliance with this legislation as you have been unable to comply with my stated request. Your letter of 17th August 2009, does in fact point out that "the definition of "executed agreement" refers to a document embodying the terms of the regulated agreement. When this is read with Regulation 7 - for agreements that have been varied - A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WOULD NOT EMBODY ITS TERMS. A copy of the agreement as varied would embody its terms." It is therefore evident that a true copy of the executed agreement would NOT contain the prescribed terms as set out by the Act, and therefore would be unenforceable – were you able to produce said true copy which it appears you are not.
Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974, a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed. These regulations are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553. Without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.
The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.
Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before Barclaycard enters into a default situation. This time limit expired 12th August 2009.
As you will be aware sections 77/78 state:
If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)
(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.
Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.
As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.
You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8
(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'
(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'
You have been unable to provide a true copy of the executed agreement, and consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.
Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is, I understand, a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines. To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this. In light of this, I requested that you remove all my data from your files within 7 days of my letter dated 12th August 2009, and look forward to receiving a letter from you within 14 days confirming that you have complied with this request. In order to retain my data, you must be able to provide a valid copy of the original executed credit agreement, which you have been unable to do so.
The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:- You are not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
- You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
- You may not pass the account to a third party.
- You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
- You may not issue a default notice related to the account.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is an ongoing formal complaint which has not reached a satisfactory conclusion.
I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.
I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to your written response.
Yours faithfully,LBM 30/6/9 Unsecured debts [STRIKE]£25,323.48[/STRIKE] £0 :T Debt free
Left for life Down Under 4th August 2012 - living frugally and have learned my lessons :j:j:j:j0 -
gargrave50 wrote: »Do I just send another "dispute" letter? Thanks again in advance, I just don't want to b*lls this up by sending the wrong thing
There really is not much point in getting 'involved' in any further correspondence with them, at this stage, as they are, in my opinion, trying to divert your attention away from the fact that they are not able to enforce the agreement.
However, you can send them a copy of the 'FORMAL NOTICE - ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE' letter that you will find on post 10 ( don't use the one on post 7 - that is applicable if a third party contacts you) of our favourite thread -
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=963087
This letter, once again, spells out exactly what their obligations are - rather than what they would like you to think they are.I am NOT, nor do I profess to be, a Qualified Debt Adviser. I have made MANY mistakes and have OFTEN been the unwitting victim of the the shamefull tactics of the Financial Industry.
If any of my experiences, or the knowledge that I have gained from those experiences, can help anyone who finds themselves in similar circumstances, then my experiences have not been in vain.
HMRC Bankruptcy Statistic - 26th October 2006 - 23rd April 2007 BCSC Member No. 7
DFW Nerd # 166 PROUD TO BE DEALING WITH MY DEBTS0
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