Cca Requests Updates Please

pinkie_pie

Realised I started a post and probably put it in the wrong place

Additions have written to say they are 'unable to locate' a signed agreement but have kindly sent me the latest copy of terms and conditions I'm assuming I can try and press ahead with this? Is there a template?

HSBC have informed me that they can't send me an agreement as I have never had a 'loan account' with them, does that means that this debt isn't applicable to those rules (it was an overdraft?)

Egg have sent me a copy of the agreement, it was online so no signature only a tick box, I'm assuming that's still valid?

Liverpool victoria/barclays haven't replied so far.

Any advice appreciated thanks!

Bazza66

trish2568 wrote: »

hi looking for a bit of advice.requested cca from citi 04/06/09.chq was cashed on the 10/06/09,as to date no cca received.have since sent default letter and a reminder with default notice enclosed.still heard diddly squat,what do i do now?they are still requesting payment,too scared not to.thanks

trish2568,

Firstly - don't be too scared - we have all been in that position and thanks to this forum we have all come out better people. You have alot of people here that will help so don't be scared.

Have you sent the 12+2 letter? If not then get that off. They are currently in default of your CCA request and cannot ask you for any money. Get the 12+2 days letter off first (The letter can be found a few posts back on this thread - I think within the last couple of days) and then get back to us.

It sounds like they are in default so you are in the driving seat. But lets take this one thing at a time.

Bazza66

snowedunderitall wrote: »

Realised I started a post and probably put it in the wrong place

Additions have written to say they are 'unable to locate' a signed agreement but have kindly sent me the latest copy of terms and conditions I'm assuming I can try and press ahead with this? Is there a template?

HSBC have informed me that they can't send me an agreement as I have never had a 'loan account' with them, does that means that this debt isn't applicable to those rules (it was an overdraft?)

Egg have sent me a copy of the agreement, it was online so no signature only a tick box, I'm assuming that's still valid?

Liverpool victoria/barclays haven't replied so far.

Any advice appreciated thanks!

Additions : Send the 12+2 days letter

HSBC : Overdrafts are not covered by CCA - although in some cases they are. Admitedly I am unsure about when they are or arn't so will leave someone else to cover that one.

Egg : Depends on date - I think online applications do not require a signature after 2006.

Liverpool/Barclays : Remember to send 12+2 letter when due.

trish2568

Bazza66 wrote: »

trish2568,

Firstly - don't be too scared - we have all been in that position and thanks to this forum we have all come out better people. You have alot of people here that will help so don't be scared.

Have you sent the 12+2 letter? If not then get that off. They are currently in default of your CCA request and cannot ask you for any money. Get the 12+2 days letter off first (The letter can be found a few posts back on this thread - I think within the last couple of days) and then get back to us.

It sounds like they are in default so you are in the driving seat. But lets take this one thing at a time.

thanks,have already done that 1 they received it over 2wks ago.

gargrave50

snowedunderitall wrote: »

Realised I started a post and probably put it in the wrong place

Additions have written to say they are 'unable to locate' a signed agreement but have kindly sent me the latest copy of terms and conditions I'm assuming I can try and press ahead with this? Is there a template?

HSBC have informed me that they can't send me an agreement as I have never had a 'loan account' with them, does that means that this debt isn't applicable to those rules (it was an overdraft?)

Egg have sent me a copy of the agreement, it was online so no signature only a tick box, I'm assuming that's still valid?

Liverpool victoria/barclays haven't replied so far.

Any advice appreciated thanks!

Hi

For Additions you want to follow it up with this letter:

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your letter dated <date>.

It would seem that you are of the belief that you have discharged your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in particular section 78(1).

You have provided me a copy of some terms and conditions and I feel it is my duty to draw your attention to some serious flaws in your response.

Firstly, to comply with section 61 of the consumer credit act 1974 which by the way refers to the signing of an agreement , a document must conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed

Now then, these regulations I refer to are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). These regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI1983/1553. Without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1) CCA 1974.

For your information in case you are unsure. The prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are: -
- A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit;

- A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and;

- A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following--

(a)Number of repayments;
(b)Amount of repayments;
(c)Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d)Dates of repayments;
(e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.
Now nowhere on the documents that you supplied is there any reference to these terms.

I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the signature document and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect

Therefore, you have failed to supply an a copy of an enforceable document, which is correctly executed; as to be so it must conform to the Regulations under s60 CCA1974.

Consequently you also remain in default of my legal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

I am also of the opinion that a court is precluded from enforcing this agreement by s127 (3) CCA1974 as it is improperly executed under s61 CCA 1974.

The consequences of improper execution are set out in section 65 CCA 1974 and s65 sets out that only a court can enforce an improperly executed agreement subject to certain qualifications, one of those is that the document is signed and contains all the prescribed terms.

Now since this document does not contain all the prescribed terms s127 (3) CCA 1974 strictly prevents the court from enforcing this agreement.

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading .

I respectfully request you review this matter in light of my comments above and I request that you supply me the required information or alternatively confirm the account is closed and no further action will be taken.

I respectfully request a reply within 14 days of the date of this letter.

Yours Sincerely
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] PRINT ONLY - DON'T SIGN YOUR NAME


For Egg, the signature is not necessary for the agreement to be enforcable as long as it contains the prescribed terms - see below:


IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE( Via section 127(3) CCA1974)

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from sced.6(1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.
Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.
When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Prescribed Terms are these

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

---

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

HSBC - the CCA does not apply to overdrafts only loans, credit cards, mail order accounts etc. Sorry:o

Hope this helps

PS What do you have with Liverpool Victoria and Barclays?

AGibson

I had a bizarre letter from Barclaycard today

before Barclaycard sold the debt on to Debt Managers Ltd, who i cca'd, but they sent the account back to Barclaycard

Barclaycard sent me letter saying they are writing to me as i requested a copy of my executed agreement for the account

they are providing me with the info under the section 78...

enclosed is a copy of the latest executed agreement and a statement of account which is practicable to refer.

funny thing is that it has no agreement enclosed or anything, just this letter (2 pages) but no agreement

see copy below



are they just trying to buy time? or being stupid, i didnt even cca barclaycard .. yet:rotfl:

pinkie_pie

Thank you gargrave and Bazza

I'll send the letter off to additions today.

Egg, it was only a CC recently taken out so I suspected it was correctly done.

Shame about HSBC

Liverpool Victoria - is a credit card taken out... maybe 2003? It's now owned/managed/something by Barclays though. That's my biggest debt.

pinkie_pie

A bit of advice actually please too, if Additions is unenforcable, which it sounds possible, should I possibly still make a low F&F settlement? It sounds from reading other threads that this could work more in favour for my credit rating? I'm hoping to offer everyone a F&F settlement, I was just planning to go down this route first just in case. As Additions is a relatively small amount, should I possibly just offer something? Or if LV turns out to be the same, should I just not?

rog2

AGibson wrote: »

are they just trying to buy time? or being stupid, i didnt even cca barclaycard .. yet:rotfl:

A bit of both - I think. :rotfl:

gargrave50

Hi snowed under,

If Additions is unenforcable you are in a strong position to make a low F&F, and you can request that a term of their acceptance is that they mark your credit record as satisfied in full