Do I "live" with my partner?

Fran

Jo_R wrote: »

What worries me is that they may decide that we do live as husband and wife and stop my benefits, but because we don't share money, that I will be left pretty much penniless.

Realistically we can all surmise on this thread but none of us can tell you what they would decide. Have you discussed this with him? If you tell the council of your situation as you said you want to be honest, if they decide you are "living together as..." would he move in with you/would you want him to move in? If they decide you are, you have one month in which to appeal the decision (from the date on the letter). If it comes to that I would suggest getting help from CAB or similar with the appeal.

lil_me

Jo_R I would recommend that you take the form to the office and fill it in there explaining the situation to them. There are no hard set rules as to living together, my partner stayed here 7 days a week for several weeks when we were seperated which the council were fully aware of and that didn't effect my claim, he stayed to look after the boys when I was very ill. We were not financially dependant on him, he had his own income and paid for his own home etc. The most important thing is being completely transparent to them, making sure they are aware of the situation should any issues arise, get something in writing from them to say they are aware of the situation.

bestpud

A colleague was investigated in 2005 for the very same thing and was told they take the whole day into account and 'social hours' in particular.

As they put it to her, if he spent every evening there and most of the weekend, and yet only slept there 2 nights (which he was), then they class them as a couple. They said they take a 24 hour period, take out sleeping and working time and base their answer on how much of the rest was spent together. I don't know if that is just here though.

They did not have shared finances as he had his own house and bills etc, but they had been on holiday together.

She basically had to decide whether to cool it off or move in with him, even though she'd had a difficult ex relationship and was reluctant to jump in too soon. In fact it worked out well in the end as they are now married and very happy, but it is a very difficult decision I think, when there are children involved.

This is just my opinion, but I think you would find it difficult to persuade them you are not a couple, given what you have said in this and other threads. But really, no one on here can say for sure either way.

Have you discussed it with him?

Gemmzie

It's very difficult isn't it as the rules are so fuzzy. It's why I keep telling my brother he has to change things once he's 18. He stays at his girlfriend's mum's house fairly often and it's a council house and the mother is on benefits. He's working and if anyone argued that he was living there, he and they would be up **** creek without a paddle.

So the general consensus is less than 3 nights, under half of social hours and no finances? (Obviously my brother and his OH don't, they are 17!)

emmy05

well maybe you miss the point, cos its all very well just cos you dropped some hours, that you want more housing benefit paid, yet with a 'living' arrangement, its - oh hang on, ill just claim my benefits cos you never know whats going to happen - why dont you ring them up to check this? cos you know its more or less a case of them saying, you cant have him staying, when somone has things in your house and is using it like his home, then id take it as hes living there.

terryw

emmy05 wrote: »

well maybe you miss the point, cos its all very well just cos you dropped some hours, that you want more housing benefit paid, yet with a 'living' arrangement, its - oh hang on, ill just claim my benefits cos you never know whats going to happen - why dont you ring them up to check this? cos you know its more or less a case of them saying, you cant have him staying, when somone has things in your house and is using it like his home, then id take it as hes living there.

Emmy, you are being a bit hard here. Please look at what the OP has said. She has said nothing about "dropping hours". She has said nothing about "things in your house". She has said nothing about "using it like a home".

The young man has a home elsewhere which he contributes to. The full CT is paid on that dwelling. He stays at night with the OP but makes no financial contribution (lucky lad). He does not act in a parential capacity with the child. He is certainly not "living as husband and wife" to use the jargon. He is free to go or to stay. He is a free agent and can stay with his mum or his girlfriend. And have a night off or see his pals when he wants.

Both of us ( and many others) may disagree with the whole situation. But this is the benefit system - it is not a question of morality or beliefs. What is happening here can be multiplied umpteen times up and down the country. As I see it , this couple are not breaking the law but taking advantage of a nonsensical system to lead their lives as they choose to. Like it or lump it, but the Op is not to blame - put this down down to government.

It is really up to the authorities to put down clear rules on a very common situation.
We can't blame or castigate the OP and her young man. They are obeying the rules if we like it or not.

Just to labour the point, ( and I write as a bloke who has never claimed a brass farthing in benefits in sixty- odd years years as I have always been too busy standing in the other queue to pay money via taxation) if the government offered a benefit for anyone with green hair, I would be ringing the hairdressers now!.

As I see it, these young people are doing nothing wrong according to the law of the land. I would like someone to correct me with chapter and verse of the law that they are breaking or even a link to a similar case which has resulted in court action. I doubt if I will see this though.

alwaysskint96

nottslass wrote: »

If a couple are genuinely "maintaining separate household's" they can not be classed as living together. Many years ago a friend was investigated in similar circumstances - She quite freely admitted that she was having a sexual/committed a relationship,but was asked to prove that they maintained separate household's ie bank statements,bills,car insurance details etc and was questioned about whether they went shopping together etc.The DSS decided that she had no case to answer and infarct the situation remained the same for a good year or two until they both decided to get married and buy a house together.

Thats a similar vsituation to me and my OH. We both have our own houses, own bills etc. We also have a child between us.

Maybe its fortunate that neither of us need housing benefit if it gives people the right to poke their noses in.

I rent privately and OH owns his house

Jo_R_2

emmy05 wrote: »

well maybe you miss the point, cos its all very well just cos you dropped some hours, that you want more housing benefit paid, yet with a 'living' arrangement, its - oh hang on, ill just claim my benefits cos you never know whats going to happen - why dont you ring them up to check this? cos you know its more or less a case of them saying, you cant have him staying, when somone has things in your house and is using it like his home, then id take it as hes living there.

I did drop some hours, you are right. This is so I can take DD1 to school in the morning before I go to work and spend more time with them at the end of the day. This is because they live with me but their dad isn't here, and I feel that it is important that I work, but also that I spend quality time with them rather than rushing here, there and everywhere and only having half an hour with them before they're ready for bed in the evenings.

Yes, obviously there is a shortfall now, and as I do claim Housing Benefit I have informed them of the change.

If you mean that he's using it as his home in that he sleeps here most nights, has a toothbrush here and a couple of t-shirts, then I see what you are saying. I'm not sure what else would constitute him using it as his home, because tbh I can't think of much else he does that constitutes that.

Jo_R_2

affordmylife wrote: »

My situation was the similar to pastures new many years ago.

I was in a relationship with my now husband who at the time rented his own house and i rented my own. All our finances were separate but he slept at mine most nights. I claimed housing benefit and family credit (as it was then).

I was investigated with now warning 'they' arrived one morning on my doorstep to ask questions. They asked me if we lived together. I said no. I also said i was desperated for us to live together but he wasnt ready for it.

He left mine in the mornings and went to his to get ready for work. He worked then went home to his own house to bath etc then came for late tea at mine (once my kiddies were in bed) and stayed the night most nights.

As long as you can prove you both have separate finances and his mum pays full council tax as he is registered living there then i dont think you have any worries.

Why should you be forced into pushing your relationship along to a stage that you are not ready for.

I hope it goes well and you eventually do decide to live together but at your pace not at anyone elses. Good luck.

By the way we carried this on for 4 years then started living together. Then we got married after 9 years together. Still together after all these years.

This is quite similar to me. He gets up and gets ready here to go to work, then goes to work. He then goes home to his house where he showers, changes and relaxes, and sometimes has tea there.

He will then either come over after the kids are in bed, and may have tea with me if he hasn't already.

Otherwise he will go out after being at home, and come round later on, about 11.30pm-ish. He goes out four/five nights in the week usually; one of these I usually join him on, the rest I am at home.

As mentioned a few times we don't share finances. I maintain my home, and he pays board to his mum, where he is registered on the electoral roll, where his post goes, where he keeps pretty much all his stuff, etc.

To me, this is not living together. To me, living together would be us saying, we want to live together in the same house, share our lives, which means sharing our money, sharing care of the children, spending more time together. We do have a committed relationship. But I simply do not feel ready to move things on that step further, to make that kind of committment right now. I'm not saying we haven't spoken about it, because we have talked a lot about possibilities for the future. But right now, us living together isn't right for me for various reasons.

MrsE_2

Jo_R wrote: »

Tbh when the form arrived I thought, well, I 'feel' like things have changed because he stays over most nights which has been a recent thing. By most nights I'd say 5 or 6 out of 7. He is on the electoral roll at his mums and she pays full council tax, his mail goes there.

I'll be honest, I am in no way wanting to be duplicitous, so I shall be telling the council. I have absolutely no intention of concealing circumstances. The only thing that worries me is as I said, that if they consider us to be living as husband and wife, that I am left with my 22 hours a week wages and child benefit, child tax credits and nothing else and no way to pay my rent. I guess it's more the thought that we would have to take our relationship that step further when I'm not ready to do that.

Sounds strange when he does stay regularly... I can see how it could be seen though.

If hes staying at your house 5 or 6 nights pw & not chipping in with the running costs of your home then I would be very sus about him as a partner if I was you.
He's probably bunging him mum a paltry few quid for a room hes never in & reaping the benefits of you as a wife/live-in-lover he doesn't have to share the financial burdon with.