Air Source Heat Pumps

lovesgshp

D1 seems well out of the maximum range, you may need to adjust this to the default of 4 to start with and see if the pump restarts and the house gets warmer. You can always revert to the original setting if not.
As with everything .. step by step!!!

You need to use the set function, as far as I can tell on each one (set button) to see what your settings are. Chinese Manuals!!!
D7 default is 00 hrs for hot water, you need to increase that

rohouk

Thanks for the last message

I have checked all the settings under the codes d1 to d9 and they are all set to the default settings. When the pump goes back in to the on setting, the fan and condensor symbol come up in the display and then after a minute what appears to be the defrost symbol comes on.

If you are happy to private message me your email address I can send you an image of the control panel but i will understand if you are not comfortable doing so

I have read a large number of entries on the web of ashp getting stuck in defrost mode and it seems to me that this is what has happened here although I could be barking up the wrong tree entirely.

lovesgshp

rohouk wrote: »

Thanks for the last message

I have checked all the settings under the codes d1 to d9 and they are all set to the default settings. When the pump goes back in to the on setting, the fan and condensor symbol come up in the display and then after a minute what appears to be the defrost symbol comes on.

If you are happy to private message me your email address I can send you an image of the control panel but i will understand if you are not comfortable doing so

I have read a large number of entries on the web of ashp getting stuck in defrost mode and it seems to me that this is what has happened here although I could be barking up the wrong tree entirely.

Hi Rohouk
The pic of the control panel is not really going to help. If everything is on the default settings, then there may be a problem with flow temperatures being over controlled by the room stats.
This is just a suggestion, but turn off all the room stats and timers on them and see how the pump runs.
Let me know.
Happy and hopefully warmer new year!!

lovesgshp

Hi Rohouk.

Can you try something else for me? Shut down approx 30% of the underfloor heating circuits in areas that you are not using, and see if that affects the temperatures in the rooms you are normally occupying, under thermostat control. The floor manifolds would normally have the reset level written on them, or you will need to take note of them.

andrewlato

Hi all,
I read with interest all your discussions on here. I've just installed ASHP in my house and i thought i'll share few things with you. Firstly I have done a lot of research into this subject before i decided to go for it. It seems that ASHP are used in much colder climates (eastern europe, scandinavia). People have had them installed in places where temp overnight drops regularly to -20 in winter and no one is complaining about their bills.
If you are planning to get it installed by a company-the absolute must is the survey. This should include working out total floor space, total m3 of your house(heated space), total heat loss(through walls and windows), size/type of windows, type of external walls, type of floors, insulation(floors,loft and walls), potential upgrade of insulation, whether or not you gonna go for UFH or rads. You should also make your draughty doors, windows and other gaps sorted first so your heat loss is minimal. Surveys should also include scanning building from outside (at night when heating is on) with thermal cameras for potential problems with windows and doors (poorly fitted) to show to the client what problems may lay ahead. That kind of survey will show required total KW for your house .
The brief calculation can be done by yourself with a software available online. Good heating engineer will not take a job on without working all the factors in first. I've read here about people crying about their bills and i bet that proper calcs were not done prior to installation.
Some plumbers(installing ASHPs) in UK (and I spoke to few)have had 1 day training here or there. That will barely brush the whole subject of HPs, they are basically hoping that things go their way since YOU- the clients- are paying for it, the risk to them is minimal.

The way you choose your Heat Pump is: once you know required KW for you house look at heating performance graph of the HP manufacturer and find similar KWH output at the lowest expected temperature where you live. For example: Panasonic Aquarea 7kw, will give you 7kw at 7deg celcious, but at -7deg will only produce 5.15kw. Yes there's always option of immersion heater element but it should only be treated as back up and never be calculated into total output of the HP.

My house is typical 1930s 3bed semi( NE Lincs),one living room,biggish kitchen, bathroom+WC -total floor around 75m2, 200mm loft insulation, external walls double brick-no cavity, and very poorly fitted UPVC doors/windows(im thinking about replacing them), concrete floor(ground floor) -no insulation.
I worked out that my house will need around 100w/m2 due to poor construction/insulation=big heat loss. From the graph you can see that the pump will produce 7.6kw at 5deg temp(which is average temp for where i live).That should cover my heating requirements.
Having done some research , I've decided to fit one myself(never done it before). Main reason for that was price of installation(2k+) and still no guarantee it will work as it should. Im not bothered with RHI/MSC/grants.
House we bought back in october had storage heaters, very expensive to run even with E7 tariff. Due to prices of the ASHP (top brands cost 3k+ just for pump) i was looking for something cheaper, having weighed up pros and cons i bought MCS Listed Trianco s1200 12kw(1300quid), 7 new rads of Ebay(250quid), 100ltr buffer(100pounds off ebay) various bits bobs pipes etc (about 500quid) totalling just over 2k. This model is basiclly cheap chinese make with a Trianco logo on it. Mitsubishi rotary compressor and very basic controller(no room stat). It took me around a week (only afternoons) and ive got it working(from about 20th december2012)-so far so good. Im in the process of monitoring my bills (E7 tariff) and so far it cost around 4 pounds/day for all my elecric. Im having submeter fitted this weekend to see exact KWH input from S1200. It's non inverter type HP and it's using a bit more than the manual says (3kwh against 2.6kwh in the book). The temp in the house is 19-23 deg( we have a newborn so we keep it warm.). I must stress that S1200 is a monoblock and i have around 12m pipes @22mm running outside my house(that includes 11m through conservatory and only 1m outdoor). I have just put extra insulation on the pipes outside and straight away heat loss has been reduced(HP works less, using less KW). So far lowest outside temp was 4deg, so no probs with defrosting as yet. I have dimplex psw100 buffer fitted, which is a must with any HP(reduces number of start ups), also 3kw immersion which is not yet connected. I played around with sensors and various settings and worked out that best for me will be setting water at 50deg, putting sensor in the dry pocket (half way up buffer tank), that makes pump working 1h and resting for just over 2h.It should reduce total daily KWH a bit making it cheaper. I stayed with my E7 tariff just to see if it's cheaper(i guess it will be in the winter but not in the summer). I must also say that S1200 is used for CH only as i have separate ASHP cylinder for DHW (Ariston NUOS 120). I have 20% oversized rads . I think at the moment it's not bad, considering that I still have to insulate some pipes in the house, which should help to retain higher temp for longer. Im quite happy to help with some info should you decided to DIY installation. And once all of it is completed i will share more data with you( when temp outside drops below zero).
Andre

malc_b

Interesting info.

FYI, in case you don't know, if you want to swap from E7 you don't have to have the meter taken out. You can just ask the Elec co to combined the usage and bill you on one rate. Most will do that but not all so ask before you switch suppliers.

However I find that if I put time clocks on dishwasher, tumbler, washing machine then I save a bit on E7. Also electric shower in the morning is in E7 time.

grahamc2003

Thanks Andrew, very interesting post.

Mind me asking why you went for a non-inverter HP? The variable speed the inverter enables was a big step forward in the design and efficiency of these, so I think I'd have chosen an inverter model, although I expect it bumps the price up a bit (did you get quotes for supply only inverter HPs such as the ecodan?).

I assume your in a related business and have pretty good diy skills? With the monoblock design, is there any messing about with the refrigerant (for example as you have to do with airtoair HPs) e.g. pressurising the system etc?

Are you on gas? If so, then the rhi isn't a factor for you, but for those off gas, it's quite a powerful incentive for avoiding diy, as well as (theoretically) getting a wet system installed with 5% vat as opposed to 20%. I say theoretically, since I'm pretty sure the mcs installer will simply pocket the vat difference to increase his profit!

So your costs seem to be about £2k plus 2.5 man days. Lets call it £4k for a brand and inverter and larger capacity, and 3 days. My quotes for a system, including rads/tank/installation for the rhi,, are about £10k, So looks like installers are charging about £2k per day labour.

lovesgshp

Interesting Andrew.
A normal low insulation house of 75 sq mtrs would probably require at the most a 9kw heat pump, as it is a quite small area to heat. If your outside temps drop no lower than the pump operating levels, which seem to be from -7 to 43C, then you should be okay, but I see on the Trianco info site that they are quoting to -15C, so would the auxilliary heater need to then cut in?
Also your buffer tank, should be 12x the size of the heat pump output, according to the Trianco info.

andrewlato

malc_b wrote: »

Interesting info.

FYI, in case you don't know, if you want to swap from E7 you don't have to have the meter taken out. You can just ask the Elec co to combined the usage and bill you on one rate. Most will do that but not all so ask before you switch suppliers.

However I find that if I put time clocks on dishwasher, tumbler, washing machine then I save a bit on E7. Also electric shower in the morning is in E7 time.

Thanks Malc,
Im aware of easy way of changing to a single tariff-my previous supplier done it for me without informing me in advance-so im chasing them for around 200pounds now-Good luck EON ;-) -my bills went from 35/a week to over 50!!! night heaters...

andrewlato

grahamc2003 wrote: »

Thanks Andrew, very interesting post.

Mind me asking why you went for a non-inverter HP? The variable speed the inverter enables was a big step forward in the design and efficiency of these, so I think I'd have chosen an inverter model, although I expect it bumps the price up a bit (did you get quotes for supply only inverter HPs such as the ecodan?).

I assume your in a related business and have pretty good diy skills? With the monoblock design, is there any messing about with the refrigerant (for example as you have to do with airtoair HPs) e.g. pressurising the system etc?

Are you on gas? If so, then the rhi isn't a factor for you, but for those off gas, it's quite a powerful incentive for avoiding diy, as well as (theoretically) getting a wet system installed with 5% vat as opposed to 20%. I say theoretically, since I'm pretty sure the mcs installer will simply pocket the vat difference to increase his profit!

So your costs seem to be about £2k plus 2.5 man days. Lets call it £4k for a brand and inverter and larger capacity, and 3 days. My quotes for a system, including rads/tank/installation for the rhi,, are about £10k, So looks like installers are charging about £2k per day labour.

Purely the cost of the machine. I had quotes ranging from 2700+vat for good brand inverter type. and yes i know if they are better in terms of COP(at least on paper), but my idea was to try and get the system as cheap as poss and beat night heaters.i have no gas here so oil,lpg or HP only. If in the future HP come down in prices maybe I'll get MCS installer to swap my HP for newer inverter type-all depends on payments/grants available.They shouldnt then charge me silly money for connecting flow and return to the new machine ;-)
I have no professional skills related to heating (HGV driver) but i like digging into subject and see if i can do it cheaper.
With monoblock there is no need to do anything with refrigerant-it's already topped up within unit, so no probs there.
The cheapest quote i got from MCS boys to set up the pump alone was 2k+vat which i think is ridiculous. but then i looked at MCS fees and i understood why that is.