Almay, Amivo, IBS what are they about?

BMSGuy

BFG wrote:

</p>Is that your opinion or a fact (to use your agrument)?

Please don't bother lecturing me about the total supply chain costs for vitamins.

FACT - Amway products are completely non-essential to the purchasers, generally costs pennies to produce and are sold for pounds/dollars and are available elsewhere for less than a quarter of the price. All MLM systems rely on this fact/business model because they need people to not be able to see the differences the products make to them (otherwise they would stop buying them).

Every scammer going can (and does) make claims for vitamins 'live longer/healthy' etc, and then when someone says 'these don't seem to be helping my arthritis (insert disease of choice)';, the flogger says '..just think how bad you would be without our magic pills. Ta da, oh and keep buying for the rest of your life or you'll get poorly.'

Another example - 'our magic water system removes all the impurities that will kill you and your children; it also removes all the pooh that the water companies are pumping into it.' BTW tap water has been shown to be more sterile than many of the bottled waters out there.... Again once bought the people will continue to have to buy or risk death multilation or killing their offspring

Magic frying pan - gee I wonder how much they cost, it must be a lot because without it we will not be getting all the nutrients we need. So as Jo Schmo cooks his boil in the bag noodles and curry he can rest assured that the magic pan is removing all the bad e-numbers and adding fibre and goodness.


Special washing powder - anyone can claim 'environmentally friendly awards, etc' but why don't they just expain that the amount of washing powder reccommneded is way too much for what is actually required to do the job. It's mostly the mechanical action and water that removes the dirt - really stubborn stains will not come out no matter how much powder you add. In fact if too much is added it's not all removed during the rinse cycle - so the manufacturers doseage is just below the 'clog' level - but sadly a lot of darling housewives/husbands/homemakers just put 'a bit extra in to make sure it cleans it really well'. Doubtless BFS can quote UN and WHO and explain how Scamway is saving the planet with it's magic powder, but a little common sense would do a much better job.


In summary....low mfg cost, extreme sales price, high re-buy/dependency, life enhancing properties claims, appeals to health scares, unprovable effects, ....my what a ringing endorsement for the product range.

BFG

Where are your facts?

Completely non-essential? Thank God I don't live near you if you think washing is non-essential.

Lecture you about the supply chain cost? You claim they cost pennies to produce but where are your facts?
You make the argument but can't back it up.

Everything that we do is available in the shops but the difference is we supply personal service. Try getting that in jolly old discount shop.

Secondly we get repeat purchasing from our customers. so if your arguments stacked up no one would come back and repurchase.

We don't have to have loss leaders which are the real scam

we don't run "loyalty schemes" that sell your data to anyone that wants it

We offer value and quality.

If a customer is unhappy in any way we offer real refunds without waiting for paperwork or even needing a reason.
I have only had to give two refunds in over 12 years of operating my business.
One for dog food whch the dog didn't like, strange as it happily liked its own bum and the other because a customer didn't like the colour of the fabric conditioner.

Never for the price or the quality.

My customers stay with me year in year out.

I am talking from experiance not out of my !!!!.

If you don't like Amway fine. Get over it. Don't make up lies to hide behind. Stop looking at price. If price was king we would all be eating at McDonalds and shopping at Asda but we don't.

What is your agenda?
Do you have anything real to say apart from "Oh! the price is high. Oh! the price is high"

What are you comparing them to? Centrum vitamins? Sonatogen? Fairy Liquid? Daz? Perrier?

Come on give me the prices, the quality, how they are sourced.
Give me the facts not "Oh! the price is high"

Steak is more expensive than hamburger
Leather is more expensive than PVC

Compare like for like and stop being a muppet

BFG_2

BMSGuy wrote:

BFG

Where are your facts?

Completely non-essential? Thank God I don't live near you if you think washing is non-essential.

Lecture you about the supply chain cost? You claim they cost pennies to produce but where are your facts?
You make the argument but can't back it up.

Everything that we do is available in the shops but the difference is we supply personal service. Try getting that in jolly old discount shop.

Secondly we get repeat purchasing from our customers. so if your arguments stacked up no one would come back and repurchase.

We don't have to have loss leaders which are the real scam

we don't run "loyalty schemes" that sell your data to anyone that wants it

We offer value and quality.

If a customer is unhappy in any way we offer real refunds without waiting for paperwork or even needing a reason.
I have only had to give two refunds in over 12 years of operating my business.
One for dog food whch the dog didn't like, strange as it happily liked its own bum and the other because a customer didn't like the colour of the fabric conditioner.

Never for the price or the quality.

My customers stay with me year in year out.

I am talking from experiance not out of my !!!!.

If you don't like Amway fine. Get over it. Don't make up lies to hide behind. Stop looking at price. If price was king we would all be eating at McDonalds and shopping at Asda but we don't.

What is your agenda?
Do you have anything real to say apart from "Oh! the price is high. Oh! the price is high"

What are you comparing them to? Centrum vitamins? Sonatogen? Fairy Liquid? Daz? Perrier?

Come on give me the prices, the quality, how they are sourced.
Give me the facts not "Oh! the price is high"

Steak is more expensive than hamburger
Leather is more expensive than PVC

Compare like for like and stop being a muppet

Dear oh dear,........ taking things one at a time

YOUR rip-off magic washing powder is non-essential - use a cheapo brand..and less of it, same results.

For '....we supply personal service', read '...we sell on fears, pressure and indebtedness' or'..people buy from me coz i'm a nice guy/gal and it wouldn't really matter what i was pushing they would buy it coz they like me'.

For '...we get repeat purchases', read '..our keep buying our vits/magic water thing or you'll get ill scare tactics really works' or '...we keep calling on the little old dears who have a cupboard full of the tatt but they can't/don't like to say no'.

Quote - 'Loss leaders are the real scam', BONKERS, so supermarkets selling stuff for less than they buy it for is a scam on us poor punters who save money as a result? It's far better to pay a lot more than you need to to Scamivo.....brilliant logic.

BTW I love the way all MLM'ers keep mentioning their business in the same breath as big companies (eg MacDonalds) to give a veneer of rub-off respectability. Is that part of the indoctrination?? Your upstream must be so proud of you.

BFG_2

For anyone wanting the real story on Amway etc check out the following

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/
- bloke who works at a uni and he explains how Amway etc 'gag' the free speech of their critics - including the court rulings about Amways behaviour.

or

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/links.htm

lots of great accounts, including former big players exposing the scams


Basically if you want to know more do a google for amway and scam - and fill your boots!!!!!!!

BFG_2

Someone asked me why I post the expose of Amway etc and I remember the quote

"Information is the fuel we use to keep our minds working properly. Deny a person the information he requires to make sound judgements, and he will be incapable of doing so."

Steve Hassan, Combating Cult Mind Control

I'm in favour of people making informed decisions about wasting their time and money on scams.

BMSGuy

BFG

I have met many people like you in my time in the business.

Ill informed, big mouthed and over opinionated.

You quote chapter and verse other peoples lies and dis-information.

You have nothing new to add to the debate.

Your knowledge of both products and marketing are pitifully small.

I doubt that you have ever used a product from any mlm and if you did I doubt that you would have the intelligence to compare the results.

Have you ever calculated a cost per use?

Probably not as it requires basic math skills.

Use a cheapo and use less of it! what a !!!!!! you are.
You must stink like a pig.
I am so sorry for your other half having to put up with you.

Praying on the fears of others, what a pratt you are.
I leave samples with prospective customers and they try it.
Then they buy.
No arm twisting just the experiance of something they like.
So all my customers are stupid? In fear? Grow up you idiot.

BMSGuy

BFG wrote:

Dear oh dear,........ taking things one at a time

YOUR rip-off magic washing powder is non-essential - use a cheapo brand..and less of it, same results.

For '....we supply personal service', read '...we sell on fears, pressure and indebtedness' or'..people buy from me coz i'm a nice guy/gal and it wouldn't really matter what i was pushing they would buy it coz they like me'.

For '...we get repeat purchases', read '..our keep buying our vits/magic water thing or you'll get ill scare tactics really works' or '...we keep calling on the little old dears who have a cupboard full of the tatt but they can't/don't like to say no'.

Quote - 'Loss leaders are the real scam', BONKERS, so supermarkets selling stuff for less than they buy it for is a scam on us poor punters who save money as a result? It's far better to pay a lot more than you need to to Scamivo.....brilliant logic.

BTW I love the way all MLM'ers keep mentioning their business in the same breath as big companies (eg MacDonalds) to give a veneer of rub-off respectability. Is that part of the indoctrination?? Your upstream must be so proud of you.

Not exactly taking things one at atime are you. Most of your arguments have disappeared.

Use cheapo and less of it! You are looking more stupid all the time.
Have you ever compared a cheapo with SA8? NO? Well I have and so have a lot of people.

Why are they cheap? Because of the crap that goes in them.
Put a teaspon of one in hot water and you will see the crap. Soap dissolves completely and is clear. If things are are not dissolving then they are not soap. So what are they? Fillers and bulking agents. They do not clean or deoderise just clog and irritate. A bit like you.

Same results as what? You are kidding me aren't you.

I really thought that you were more intelligent than that.

You are a liar plain and simple.

Scenario 1

I doubt that you have used an Amway product, met a distributor or seen the presentation.

I bet you sit at your computer everyday just stinking to yourself and trying to attck something that you don't understand. And try to look intelligent to the outside world whilst doing your best to avoid real life.

Scenario 2

You used to be in the Amway business and because you couldn't make it work and had told your one and only mate that you would be a millionaire by a week next thursday and you couldn't even twist the lid of a tube of tooth paste to try it,thought "I know, I'll blame the business. I'll tell the world that Amway is a scam. I will protect the world from this evil business".

Come on,come clean! Ha Ha Ha that would be a novelty wouldn't it.
What was it? Oh I remember ..... ROTFL!

Franchising was investigated in exactly the same way as Amway. It was not understood and the established businesses were frightened of it and tried to get it made illegal. Network Marketing is frightening to established businesses and noy understood by the masses for exactly the same reasons. It is different and doesn't conform to the norm.

Lies do not help.

BMSGuy

BFG wrote:

For anyone wanting the real story on Amway etc check out the following

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/
- bloke who works at a uni and he explains how Amway etc 'gag' the free speech of their critics - including the court rulings about Amways behaviour.

or

http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/links.htm

lots of great accounts, including former big players exposing the scams



Basically if you want to know more do a google for amway and scam - and fill your boots!!!!!!!

For anyone wanting the truth visit the DMA, DSA, OFT and DTI websites.

Amway gag the critics? That's novel. They take court action to protect themselves from lies, slander and libel and then win in court? Well they must be evil then mustn't they?

Accounts of former big players?

Why are they former then? Crises of conscience? I don't think.
Maybe their businesses collapsed because they were unethical? or maybe another reason? Then it is easier to come out and attack their former "paymasters" than just to quietly slip into the night.

Any one with a grudge can post on the internet. That doesn't make it true. Not like all the truths that we read in news papers on see on the television.

Why don't you do a search on charities and scam on google? or anything else and scam? Guess what it will results you would get?

try https://www.amway.co.uk, https://www.amivo.co.uk, https://www.amway.com, https://www.quixtar.com, https://www.alticor.com?

And guess what these have positive messages about amway.

Seek and you will find. What are you seeking? Positive or negative?

MickKnipfler

How long has Amway been trading? If it was a scam, wouldn't the DTI have stepped in by now?

ManAtHome

Mick, I'm sure you're right, but from reading these posts, apparently

a) anyone using (eg) Tesco washing powder stinks
b) reputable water companies are pumping crap through our taps
c) vitamin supplements are essential

reads a bit like the people who knock on my door inferring that I'm too stupid and lazy to look for good value in whatever they are selling (eg perhaps not quite as ethical as they could be).

BFG_2

MickKnipfler wrote:

How long has Amway been trading? If it was a scam, wouldn't the DTI have stepped in by now?

Mick

The DTI are pretty useless (their nickname is the Department of Timidity and Inaction!!!) It's better to take a look at the actions that the US has taken against these organisations - typically Better Business Bureaus and State Attorneys...have a google for them.

I'm not saying Amway products in and of themselves are the main scam, it's more to do with the business model.

Scamway/Scamivo vitamins are just as rip-off/useless as all other expensive vits - just much more expensive;

their magic water cleaner (so your kids don't get poisoned) is the same as the other useless water filters (just much more expensive)

their magic frying pan (with a lid) is the same as other frying pans - just much more expensive (and it's got a magic lid)

their magic washing powder does just the same as Tesco's own brand - it's just a lot more expensive

The people who are most affected by the Scamways of this world are not the occasional granny who buys a packet of washing powder but the poor suckers who are sucked in believeing they can have a wonderful lifestyle (look at the claims/pics on the websites) just by selling products...oh and recruiting others.

These people plug away for months, some for years, being told by the upstream (their bosses/recruiters) that everyone else is making thousnads, you just have to try a bit harder.....but it never comes.

Read any of the accounts on the web by real people who fell for it .....see previous links in my postings.

Something like 60% fallout in first 6 moths, 98% fallout in 2 years..shows how many join and realise it won't work.

Of course the Scamways supporters will just tell you 'they didn't try hard enough', but the amusing thing is that every person who defends Scamways etc does it using the virtually the same mantras as taught to them during their life a Scamway convert.


Ask any proponent of Scamways to show you their IR accounts for the 'big money' they earn....... deafening silence.

Many people compare Scamways etc to a religious cult...with it's dogma and a virtual 'kill the unbelievers' stance...I'll let you make up your own mind.

I'm all in favour of people joining any business opportunity/scam, just so long as they do it from a position of having all the info to hand to make a fully informed decision.