Fence ownership confusion

WIAWSNB

Wisteria21 said:

WIAWSNB said:

Wisteria21 said:

Spoke to next doors wife today, they say it states it's theirs in the TA6 form and that you always own your lefthand side anyway. 

I have shown them that's not true via Google, she says she will speak to the solicitor she bought the house from and contact the land registry. She does not dispute the boundary lines, but still thinks they own the fence. 

Brilliant. Hoisted by their own whatsits.
There is zero convention on fence ownership. 
And if the previous owner messed up, it also has zero bearing on you.

I think I'm definitely dealing with stupidity rather than malice, although in a way malice would be easier. 

I'm just hoping she does talk to someone who can explain the matter to her. I was very encouraging about talking to her solicitor for clarity. I mentioned I'd already spoken to our legal protection and I don't think she had a clue what that meant or what barring it might have on the matter.

On the positive side she seemed pleased I wanted to do some work on the house because they're also worried about things that need doing on my side, and if i can just get that sorted peacefully the rest doesn't matter that much. 

Seriously, 'stupid' is much better than 'malice'. The former is redeemable, the latter requires boxing in - much harder.
Anyhoo, you just proceed as normal. Matter-of-fact.

BikingBud

michael1234 said:

flaneurs_lobster said:

Is the new fence horrible? Have they stolen a large chunk of your land? Otherwise just look at it as a new free fence.

I don't think the neighbours should be stealing any amount of land.

Given that the boundary width is less than 1 millionth of the thickness of the fence how precise do you want to be?

Realism and actuality need to be applied much more in boundary disputes.

Wisteria21

VICTORY

The wife next door has come round and told me their solicitors have emailed to explain the TA6 information was wrong, and our old neighbours emailed them a correction that isn't on the TA6. They actually told them all boundaries are shared. 

I still think the fence was ours, but I decided this is actually a really good thing and it would be best to go along with it, as realistically, as they do own the fence panels and I have no interest in creating a massive drama by throwing their new panels out, this is now essentially a shared fence anyway, so why not agreed that? It also gets me what I want, an apologetic neighbour who has promised not to obstruct my use or decoration of the fence, nor the building work we will both benefit from, as now they don't think I'm up to something weird. They understand I at least part-own the fence, and agree I was right to question their ownership. 

I checked we agree on the actual property boundary, which we do, and said that as you can only own a fence if on your land or you paid for it, some old owners must have gone 50/50 on the fence, and so we should do they same. So now I part own the panels (which I've evidenced), and we are no longer in dispute. 

I'll still get some cameras just in case, but I think this is resolved. 

Boohoo

Wisteria21 said:

VICTORY

The wife next door has come round and told me their solicitors have emailed to explain the TA6 information was wrong, and our old neighbours emailed them a correction that isn't on the TA6. They actually told them all boundaries are shared. 

I still think the fence was ours, but I decided this is actually a really good thing and it would be best to go along with it, as realistically, as they do own the fence panels and I have no interest in creating a massive drama by throwing their new panels out, this is now essentially a shared fence anyway, so why not agreed that? It also gets me what I want, an apologetic neighbour who has promised not to obstruct my use or decoration of the fence, nor the building work we will both benefit from, as now they don't think I'm up to something weird. They understand I at least part-own the fence, and agree I was right to question their ownership. 

I checked we agree on the actual property boundary, which we do, and said that as you can only own a fence if on your land or you paid for it, some old owners must have gone 50/50 on the fence, and so we should do they same. So now I part own the panels (which I've evidenced), and we are no longer in dispute. 

I'll still get some cameras just in case, but I think this is resolved. 

So you and your neighbour were both correct then?

If all the paperwork was correct at the time you and your neighbour wouldn't have had to go through all this trouble and upset with each other.

Glad it's all sorted now.

WIAWSNB

I think it's more a case of your uninformed neighbour jumping to conclusions they just shouldn't have.
I believe their vendor's modification to the TA6 is still wrong. This is not a 'shared' - party - fence in the correct sense, as it exists fully within Wistie's land.
Put it this way; could Wistie remove this physical fence and throw it away (apart from the two panels the neighb paid for, which should be returned to them...)? Yes.
Could the neighbour remove any panel, including the ones they put there? No. 
Why? 'cos it ain't on their land - they'd be trespassing.
A proper shared - party - fence should straddle the boundary line.
Having said that, this is an ok outcome, as ongoing costs look as tho' they'll be shared. Great result, Wistie.
Actually very unusual - and very pleasing - to have such a mutually acceptable outcome.

Wisteria21

Boohoo said:

So you and your neighbour were both correct then?

If all the paperwork was correct at the time you and your neighbour wouldn't have had to go through all this trouble and upset with each other.

Glad it's all sorted now.

I think WIAWSNB has explained it well. It can't be a true shared boundary fence as it is so far onto our land the neighbours would have to own part of our lounge and bedrooms for it to be on the boundary. Besides which it's built into other parts of my property.

I think the old neighbours just didn't know who owned the fences, so first they said they owned all of the fences on all sides, then realised that wasn't right, and said all boundaries were shared. 

My neighbour's solicitors obviously haven't seen our houses, so they have no idea where this fence actually is located or what it looks like. They only know what is on the deeds, what our current neighbours say and what the old owners of their house disclosed. 

If the solicitors knew the fence is entirely on our land, and that there likely used to be an old boundary wall that's been taken down on the actual boundary, they'd probably advise the fence must belong to us, as our legal advisor did. That's if they wanted to take a stance at all. 

However, I don't think it really matters now, thank goodness. I'd rather live a peaceful life than force the issue, as I think it would cause me more trouble than it could ever be worth. 

Wisteria21

WIAWSNB said:

Having said that, this is an ok outcome, as ongoing costs look as tho' they'll be shared. Great result, Wistie.
Actually very unusual - and very pleasing - to have such a mutually acceptable outcome.

Thank you very much, your advice has been very helpful.

I think I have been lucky they aren't bad people and while it will take a little while for things with the neighbours to truly settle, if I am now able to peacefully interact with my own fence, do my building work, and next door will pay half of any future repairs on this fence, then it's hard to see this as any kind of loss. I think I'm actually in a better position than when I started. 

I don't think it's a bad idea to get the cameras anyway, and I now know what to do if there are problems in future thanks to my legal protection.

I plan to celebrate with the wine, which I did not deliver with the letter and kept for myself and my husband. 

WIAWSNB

Wisteria21 said:

WIAWSNB said:

Having said that, this is an ok outcome, as ongoing costs look as tho' they'll be shared. Great result, Wistie.
Actually very unusual - and very pleasing - to have such a mutually acceptable outcome.

Thank you very much, your advice has been very helpful.

I think I have been lucky they aren't bad people and while it will take a little while for things with the neighbours to truly settle, if I am now able to peacefully interact with my own fence, do my building work, and next door will pay half of any future repairs on this fence, then it's hard to see this as any kind of loss. I think I'm actually in a better position than when I started. 

I don't think it's a bad idea to get the cameras anyway, and I now know what to do if there are problems in future thanks to my legal protection.

I plan to celebrate with the wine, which I did not deliver with the letter and kept for myself and my husband. 

Great outcome.
Um, my address is 55 Acacia Avenue, Bushy Hill, The Moon.
Burp. 

KxMx

It's good when these things are settled amicably.

When in old address we were told left fence was ours (social housing rental, fences were not ll's responsibility). We replaced two knackered panels. 

Few years later right hand neighbour seemed to think opposite fence was ours. He wanted to install new fences both sides of his and offered to do it at his cost if we would have the post side visible so he had both the "nice" sides. 

We were happy to agree.

Few years after that left hand neighbour replaced the entire fence (ivy damage). 

Living in a terraced row of 5 there was a 3 sided wrap around fence at end of gardens (local authority responsible) and 4 dividing fence lines in between the houses. So clear as mud trying to deduce anything and neighbourly co operation essential!