Metering Requirements of Octopus Snug

jodie264

I have the meter and heaters they said were compatible with snug.  I have always had e7 because there is no gas supply to the homes here.  They are up to date heaters.  I was billed their tariff for months and then they said the tariff was not compatible and more than doubled the charges. So for the first time in over 30 years I have gone from credit of around 250 to a debt of 607!  You could not make it up so instead of paying less by switching, I am being billed for more than if I had not switched in the first place.

tamste

I'm trying to get onto Snug Octopus, but having issues, not because of the SMETS2 meter, but my storage heaters are relatively new and on a 24hr supply. The ALCS control was removed when the new heaters were set up.
They seem to be insisting that the heaters are ALCS controlled, which I don't understand. They are not WIFI or Bluetooth capable, relying on local setting of the charging period at the heater level. I am more than happy to do this, as I currently do on E7, but the responses I am getting back seem to be pointing to the tariff only being acceptable for ALCS controlled heaters.

This seems to go against promoting the use of modern, efficient storage heaters. Why did I bother???

MWT

tamste said:

This seems to go against promoting the use of modern, efficient storage heaters. Why did I bother???

What make of heaters have you installed?

Hopefully not 'Fischer' or similar?

... but yes, ALCS control is a requirement for Snug so Octopus can exercise control remotely. 

Swipe

Just tell them what they want to hear and then program the storage heaters accordingly. The ALCS will still be active on the smart meter even if the circuit has been disconnected at the consumer unit. They'll be none the wiser.

QrizB

tamste said:

I'm trying to get onto Snug Octopus, but .. the responses I am getting back seem to be pointing to the tariff only being acceptable for ALCS controlled heaters.
This seems to go against promoting the use of modern, efficient storage heaters. Why did I bother???

Your modern efficient storage heaters could still be switched by ALCS. Why did you choose not to keep that function?

One of the reasons for Octopus Snug being cheaper than E7 is that it lets them them vary the charging hours in response to wholesale prices and grid conditions. If your heaters aren't ALCS controlled, they can't do that - and you risk charging them during peak rate periods.

MWT

Swipe said:

Just tell them what they want to hear and then program the storage heaters accordingly. The ALCS will still be active on the smart meter even if the circuit has been disconnected at the consumer unit. They'll be none the wiser.

That isn't going to work, the energy is only at the low-rate when the Octopus smart schedule decides to charge, and that schedule can an will vary from day to day according to when the energy is 'greenest'.

You can't just set a schedule and forget it like you could with E7...

Swipe

MWT said:

Swipe said:

Just tell them what they want to hear and then program the storage heaters accordingly. The ALCS will still be active on the smart meter even if the circuit has been disconnected at the consumer unit. They'll be none the wiser.

That isn't going to work, the energy is only at the low-rate when the Octopus smart schedule decides to charge, and that schedule can an will vary from day to day according to when the energy is 'greenest'.

You can't just set a schedule and forget it like you could with E7...

On Snug It will always be off peak between 00:30 and 06:30 if it's not on ALCS which is why they are not happy with storage heaters on timers.

Phones4Chris

jodie264 said:

I have the meter and heaters they said were compatible with snug.  I have always had e7 because there is no gas supply to the homes here.  They are up to date heaters.  I was billed their tariff for months and then they said the tariff was not compatible and more than doubled the charges. So for the first time in over 30 years I have gone from credit of around 250 to a debt of 607!  You could not make it up so instead of paying less by switching, I am being billed for more than if I had not switched in the first place.

Sorry, you've not been very clear here about exactly what's happened.
You were obviously on E7 previously, was this recently with Octopus as you talked about "if I had not switched in the first place" -  you might have meant switched suppliers with that remark.

So, presumably your started with Octopus on E7, did you then actually switch to Snug and how quickly?
Which tariff were you billed for months - E7 or Snug?
Whichever, what reason did they give for saying "it was not compatible" and when you say more than doubled the charges, was that because E7 was more expensive than Snug OR did they not put you back on E7?
IF they haven't put you back on E7 (whatever reasons they'd previously given), then you need to raise a (formal if need be) complaint. And also ensure they rebill you correctly on an E7 tariff (they have all the meter readings/data) back to when they changed things.

Are all your storage heaters on a separate off-peak circuit which is controlled and switched by the meter? So none are on the 24/7 circuit and just controlled by their own timers?

Edit: I've just seen that you have posted clearer details in another thread, but for the sake of clarity in this thread it would be helpful if you also clarified here.

tamste

• Swipe said:

• MWT said:

  Swipe said:

  Just tell them what they want to hear and then program the storage heaters accordingly. The ALCS will still be active on the smart meter even if the circuit has been disconnected at the consumer unit. They'll be none the wiser.

  That isn't going to work, the energy is only at the low-rate when the Octopus smart schedule decides to charge, and that schedule can an will vary from day to day according to when the energy is 'greenest'.

  You can't just set a schedule and forget it like you could with E7...

  
  

  On Snug It will always be off peak between 00:30 and 06:30 if it's not on ALCS which is why they are not happy with storage heaters on timers.

  If the Snug charging schedule is always 00:30 to 06:30, why on earth does it need to be controlled through ALCS if local heater level programming is available and used?

Scot_39

tamste said:

I'm trying to get onto Snug Octopus, but having issues, not because of the SMETS2 meter, but my storage heaters are relatively new and on a 24hr supply. The ALCS control was removed when the new heaters were set up.
They seem to be insisting that the heaters are ALCS controlled, which I don't understand. They are not WIFI or Bluetooth capable, relying on local setting of the charging period at the heater level. I am more than happy to do this, as I currently do on E7, but the responses I am getting back seem to be pointing to the tariff only being acceptable for ALCS controlled heaters.

This seems to go against promoting the use of modern, efficient storage heaters. Why did I bother???

Meter ALCS and cheap rate tariffs - certainly ones that have day time boost / charge windows are few and far between these days - and many suppliers have in past - or as recently EDF have in case of many old legacy tariffs decided to abandon them.

However since you have heaters that arent reliant on ALCS - then

a) A modern smart meter might well last the full day on a single overnight E7 charge.

AFAIK of the models I considered only the top end Dimplex HHR and Elnur Ecombi HHR allowed single wiring - and these as HHR stand an even better chance of lasting - as long as they are sized appropriately for the rooms.

b) Because you can set your own times - if you want say afternoon and evening charge periods - TOU tariffs are available - like Octopus Cosy - with it's 3 AM + 3 afternoon + 2 late evening - might well be a more suitable fit - certainly if you can minimise heavy energy use in it's 4-7pm peak window - as again it's rates are more competitive than E7 when last checked my region.