Refund due after material change to ticket?

MeteredOut

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

Are you wanting to cancel for a full refund due to the changes, or are you after a partial refund but still attend the event?

QuietQuillet

MeteredOut said:

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

Are you wanting to cancel for a full refund due to the changes, or are you after a partial refund but still attend the event?

Full refund is what I'd like

Okell

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

You could try but I suspect your card provider will take the same view as Ticketmaster - why wouldn't they?

I doubt you can justify a full refund as I don't think that two of your missing extras on their own constitute a "material alteration" to the event.  The best I think you could argue would be for a refund of whatever premium you paid for these missing extras.

Having said that you say you paid four figures(!) for a ticket so I assume you paid a premium of several hundred quid for the extras.  If you feel strongly enough that the loss of the extras can't be compensated by a partial refund but TM and your card provider disagree with you, you'll have to sue either or both of them.


[Edit: to give context to my remark about paying four figures for a ticket, I've got in my hand a ticket to see The Clash at De Montfort Hall in Leicester on 20 November 1978.  It cost £1.75 ]

Jenni_D

Okell said:

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

I doubt you can justify a full refund as I don't think that two of your missing extras on their own constitute a "material alteration" to the event.

I'm not so sure ... looking at term 11.5 posted earlier then I can't see that this covers them - they explicitly list the exceptions to the material change aspect, and those listed do not cover what's happened to the OP. 🤷‍♀️

400ixl

If they have removed all direct contact with the act then I can see why the OP would consider that as a material change. Meeting the act in person could easily be THE reason for buying that ticket.

Whether you could persuade TM or your card provider I don't know but worth a go.

QuietQuillet

400ixl said:

If they have removed all direct contact with the act then I can see why the OP would consider that as a material change. Meeting the act in person could easily be THE reason for buying that ticket.

Whether you could persuade TM or your card provider I don't know but worth a go.

I bought the ticket due to the package that was originally offered. Although there is still contact there has been a change. What i paid for, im.not getting and nothing has been offered in place. 

I've asked for a refund from tm, will wait and see how much of a fight this will be

Okell

Jenni_D said:

Okell said:

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

I doubt you can justify a full refund as I don't think that two of your missing extras on their own constitute a "material alteration" to the event.

I'm not so sure ... looking at term 11.5 posted earlier then I can't see that this covers them - they explicitly list the exceptions to the material change aspect, and those listed do not cover what's happened to the OP. 🤷‍♀️

But the things listed in 11.5 are prefaced with the words "in particular", so I read those to be specific examples of things that are not a material alteration, and not an exhaustive list.

I don't think that just because soemthing isn't on that list means it can't be a material alteration.

I'm also influenced by the wording "... to the event that purchasers of Tickets, taken generally, could reasonably expect... ".

I think that ticket purchasers "taken generally" are only going to be concerned with whether the band plays for a reasonable amount of time and not with whether VIP ticket holders get their champagne and Q&A session.

Again, I don't think the loss of a couple of extras justifies a full refund, but a proportional refund - yes.

The OP remains free to try their card provider and/or sue them and/or TM

400ixl

QuietQuillet said:

400ixl said:

If they have removed all direct contact with the act then I can see why the OP would consider that as a material change. Meeting the act in person could easily be THE reason for buying that ticket.

Whether you could persuade TM or your card provider I don't know but worth a go.

I bought the ticket due to the package that was originally offered. Although there is still contact there has been a change. What i paid for, im.not getting and nothing has been offered in place. 

I've asked for a refund from tm, will wait and see how much of a fight this will be

Ah, if they are not removing all contact then it may be harder to argue it is material

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

QuietQuillet said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP it is the job of ticketmaster to state as many things as possible aren’t a material change, on the other hand you’d want as few as possible and if two sides can’t agree, sadly, you look to small claims and a court to decide ultimately what is what. 

I was thinking if i have no joy with ticket master then as it was bought on credit card to claim using section 75

S75 makes the credit provider jointly liable so you are free to chase them, due to regulation the bank may well be more customer service focused than TM and/or may want to avoid an official complaint so may be easier to deal with.

Okell said:

But the things listed in 11.5 are prefaced with the words "in particular", so I read those to be specific examples of things that are not a material alteration, and not an exhaustive list.

The CMA guidance on the right to vary terms or what is provided requires, in simple terms, specific terms detailing what is what so the consumer doesn't face any surprises, have an "etc, etc" type of list wouldn't meet this expectation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

Sections 5.21 and 5.22 cover it in more detail. 

QuietQuillet

Okell said:

But the things listed in 11.5 are prefaced with the words "in particular", so I read those to be specific examples of things that are not a material alteration, and not an exhaustive list.

The CMA guidance on the right to vary terms or what is provided requires, in simple terms, specific terms detailing what is what so the consumer doesn't face any surprises, have an "etc, etc" type of list wouldn't meet this expectation.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/450440/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.pdf

Sections 5.21 and 5.22 cover it in more detail. 

Thank you for the link to the CMA guidance. I had no clue that such a thing existed.

I wonder if what you've pointed out here could be of help should tm dig heels in