Smart meter for storage heaters

Rosie1001

Has anyone had a successful switch using a 5 port smart meter 

I am in a group for complex Metering , and a lot of people are losing their afternoon boost when they are changing 

their suppliers are saying it can take 6 weeks to fully change over to new times on meter etc , some people have lost it altogether 

it’s not just one supplier they are having issues with , so it’s seems like it’s across the board 

I’m getting mine fitted next week , 

should I be asking the “ engineer “ any questions before he takes my RTS one out ?? 

I am very worried but I know it needs done 

MWT

Make sure he is aware that you have storage heaters on a separate circuit so they should be installing a 5-port smart meter or a 4-port with an external ALCS.

You will need to talk to your supplier about the hours that the ALCS is programmed to activate, that is not something the installing engineer can see or alter.

Who is your supplier and what type of tariff are you on right now? ... E7, E10 etc.

Ildhund

A few comments:

'Their afternoon boost'. Some plans include offpeak periods other than overnight and may have one in the afternoon. Some are meter-register-driven, others like Octopus Snug or some Tomatoes are Time-of-Use tariffs governed solely by half-hourly usage data. They're not comparable.

A register-driven peak/offpeak plan requires at least two different things to be aligned:

• the tariff table in the meter which dictates the times when one register stops recording and the other starts;

• the ALCS calendar which dictates the times when the offpeak circuit is switched on and off.

We have seen a few cases where this alignment hasn't happened, for example the tariff table is set to Economy 10 times as expected, but the ALCS calendar is set to Economy 7 times. It's often not possible to see this until after the installing engineer is long gone. For those with a good WAN connection to the smart meter communications network, it's easy to remedy. For those in a no-WAN area, it may not even be possible without another engineer visit and in some cases not even then.

The six-week settling-down period is often quoted. When one very complex metering arrangement (e.g. RTS three-rate systems) is exchanged for another, there are changes that need to be made to the national database that tries to keep track of every meter's location and configuration. These changes have to be done manually and involve several parties other than the supplier and the DNO, and it may well be that it takes even more than six weeks. Until they're all in place, billing may be unreliable, but it should all come right in the end. It's possible that changes have to take place in a specific order, so a delay at one point could affect other changes. It's an immensely complicated process.

That said, changes to meter configuration carried out remotely should take effect within a few hours, perhaps 48 if a setting doesn't work first time and has to be repeated. Any delay beyond that is probably the time it takes for a particular case to rise to the top of the pile for the tech responsible. Because of the sheer number of meter exchanges taking place these days, it's not unimaginable that even a straightforward configuration change could take weeks before it's complete. 

This, however, is a description of cases where things don't run smoothly. It's probably fair to say that most exchanges happen exactly as expected. It's only the ones that don't that we hear about. 

RTS will stop working on 30 June. After that, there's no knowing what will happen to your heating if the RTS system is still in place, so it's imperative to have the RTS removed before then. The engineer should know what he's doing - you really have no choice but to trust him to get it right. Prayer might help.

Rosie1001

MWT said:

Make sure he is aware that you have storage heaters on a separate circuit so they should be installing a 5-port smart meter or a 4-port with an external ALCS.

You will need to talk to your supplier about the hours that the ALCS is programmed to activate, that is not something the installing engineer can see or alter.

Who is your supplier and what type of tariff are you on right now? ... E7, E10 etc.

I’m with edf , I get 5 hours overnight , 2 hour afternoon boost 

edf are saying they won’t know if I going on eco 7 or eco 10 until it’s installed , if I get eco 7 I lose my boost which I need 

Rosie1001

Ildhund said:

A few comments:

'Their afternoon boost'. Some plans include offpeak periods other than overnight and may have one in the afternoon. Some are meter-register-driven, others like Octopus Snug or some Tomatoes are Time-of-Use tariffs governed solely by half-hourly usage data. They're not comparable.

A register-driven peak/offpeak plan requires at least two different things to be aligned:

• the tariff table in the meter which dictates the times when one register stops recording and the other starts;

• the ALCS calendar which dictates the times when the offpeak circuit is switched on and off.

We have seen a few cases where this alignment hasn't happened, for example the tariff table is set to Economy 10 times as expected, but the ALCS calendar is set to Economy 7 times. It's often not possible to see this until after the installing engineer is long gone. For those with a good WAN connection to the smart meter communications network, it's easy to remedy. For those in a no-WAN area, it may not even be possible without another engineer visit and in some cases not even then.

The six-week settling-down period is often quoted. When one very complex metering arrangement (e.g. RTS three-rate systems) is exchanged for another, there are changes that need to be made to the national database that tries to keep track of every meter's location and configuration. These changes have to be done manually and involve several parties other than the supplier and the DNO, and it may well be that it takes even more than six weeks. Until they're all in place, billing may be unreliable, but it should all come right in the end. It's possible that changes have to take place in a specific order, so a delay at one point could affect other changes. It's an immensely complicated process.

That said, changes to meter configuration carried out remotely should take effect within a few hours, perhaps 48 if a setting doesn't work first time and has to be repeated. Any delay beyond that is probably the time it takes for a particular case to rise to the top of the pile for the tech responsible. Because of the sheer number of meter exchanges taking place these days, it's not unimaginable that even a straightforward configuration change could take weeks before it's complete. 

This, however, is a description of cases where things don't run smoothly. It's probably fair to say that most exchanges happen exactly as expected. It's only the ones that don't that we hear about. 

RTS will stop working on 30 June. After that, there's no knowing what will happen to your heating if the RTS system is still in place, so it's imperative to have the RTS removed before then. The engineer should know what he's doing - you really have no choice but to trust him to get it right. Prayer might help.

I checked and my neighbour has no issue with her gas smart meter  , I’m in south Tyneside , so hopefully signal will be good 

I got one meter , 2 mpan , 4 readings ..one which never moves 

QrizB

Hi Rosie1001!

Rosie1001 said:

Has anyone had a successful switch using a 5 port smart meter 

Yes, lots of people.

Rosie1001 said:

I am in a group for complex Metering , and a lot of people are losing their afternoon boost when they are changing 

That will be because they're being switched to Economy 7, not staying on their previous complex-metered tariff. If they still need an afternoon boost they'll need to choose a tariff that offers one.

Rosie1001 said:

their suppliers are saying it can take 6 weeks to fully change over to new times on meter etc

That's unlikely. Most people on this forum find their smart meter timings can be updated the same day. If it's taking six weeks, there's something wrong.

Rosie1001 said:

it’s not just one supplier they are having issues with , so it’s seems like it’s across the board 

Where are you hearing this? I haven't seen a flood of recent complaints on this forum. Unlike you, they obviously don't have the MSE regulars to help them navigate the process

Rosie1001 said:

I’m getting mine fitted next week , should I be asking the “ engineer “ any questions before he takes my RTS one out ??

Your engineer should have replaced dozens of these meters before getting to you.

Ask if they're going to fit an isolation switch (they aren't obliged to, but it's good practice if they can and if they know you're expecting one it might encourage them to do so).

Ask them to tell you the closing readings from the old meter, to show you how the in-home display works, to confirm that your meter has been set up for E10 (or if temporarily on E7) and ask if they can tell you what the timings are.

Rosie1001

QrizB said:

Hi Rosie1001!

Rosie1001 said:

Has anyone had a successful switch using a 5 port smart meter 

Yes, lots of people.

Rosie1001 said:

I am in a group for complex Metering , and a lot of people are losing their afternoon boost when they are changing 

That will be because they're being switched to Economy 7, not staying on their previous complex-metered tariff. If they still need an afternoon boost they'll need to choose a tariff that offers one.

Rosie1001 said:

their suppliers are saying it can take 6 weeks to fully change over to new times on meter etc

That's unlikely. Most people on this forum find their smart meter timings can be updated the same day. If it's taking six weeks, there's something wrong.

Rosie1001 said:

it’s not just one supplier they are having issues with , so it’s seems like it’s across the board 

Where are you hearing this? I haven't seen a flood of recent complaints on this forum. Unlike you, they obviously don't have the MSE regulars to help them navigate the process

Rosie1001 said:

I’m getting mine fitted next week , should I be asking the “ engineer “ any questions before he takes my RTS one out ??

Your engineer should have replaced dozens of these meters before getting to you.

Ask if they're going to fit an isolation switch (they aren't obliged to, but it's good practice if they can and if they know you're expecting one it might encourage them to do so).

Ask them to tell you the closing readings from the old meter, to show you how the in-home display works, to confirm that your meter has been set up for E10 (or if temporarily on E7) and ask if they can tell you what the timings are.

On the Facebook group I’m on , suppliers are different , a lot are on Scottish power , a few edf , some are ovo ..some octopus 

they were supposed to fit my isolation switch a week or so ago , so it’s all supposed to be done at the same appointment next weds now 

Scot_39

It's very confusing tracking this and other questions you have on this one meter swap across now a few threads.

Yes many people have had successful installs of 5 port meters.  In as much as they work - and supply both normal and a restricted time feed via ALCS.

But that isn't the same as retaining the same tariff, the same  rates or in your case for concern the same off peak times.

Likes of e10 users now a very small proportion of total UK homes.  IIRC the aofgem breakdown - couple of years ago -excluding the at the time over a million on rts - fixed TOU legacy tariffs were a tiny fraction - sub 100,000 iirc - and e10 only a fraction of that.  Vs iirc well over 2 million on fixed TOU e7.

The simple fact is for many years many suppliers have not been replacing like for like.  As for several years suppliers have tended to focus on just 2 standard electricity tariffs -  single rate and economy 7.
So during that time some will have lost rts flexible timings, others on legacy tariffs - fixed time off peak slots - mechanical digital or fixed / variable rts metering - have been put onto standard economy 7 with a single 7 hr period overnight - rather than say economy 10 or more dynamic rts like SP weathercall tariffs or Ovo/ SSE as was variablec5-12 hours iirc THTC.

Suppliers do not have to offer e10.

You are lucky - you are being offered e10 - some suppliers will not do so - even to legacy customers already on it in past - so have had threads here from those that lost it on meter upgrade.  Including threads from those at my current E10 supplier (got it initially - and even then only as  - as a legacy rts EMEB heatwise customer of EOn - on two meter swaps first several years ago before rts radio signal switch off dates - initially to modern digital before smart - then smart). At one time EOn Next specifically excluded supporting any complex meter tariffs (but they have rewritten that paragraph in T&Cs since iirc ) which they explicitly defined as anything other than 1 single off peak time block per 24 hours.

There are some bespoke smart tariffs but other than that many suppliers have pretty much standardised on single rate and economy 7 smets2 smart meter installs.

The only good news is that RTS replacement seems to have shifted some suppliers attitude towards at least e10.
A couple of years ago no such option was being offered to many.  My uncle and some of his rural neighbours had lots of problems getting off of thtc to smart or even modern digital in no radio wan areas - some had to pay for new meter work.
So likes of Ovo are as per many posts on their user forum installing what could be 10,000s of e10 smart meters - which do give 3x off peak times - to those loosing rts e10, rts thtc etc.  But may well be restricting that tariff offer to those legacy customers.

The problem is like you these perhaps need to be setup to do so and by implication they may have been configured for default e7 if it depends in install day work for you to get e10 configured. Which requires a working WAN connection.

E10 is also potentialky more expensive than standard e7  - iirc EDF tend to load the peak rate vs their regional e7, EOn tend to load the off peak rate vs their e7 rates - in my region anyway when checked.

Many do not want to pay that premium.

And with later model modern lot 20 and HHR night storage heaters many find they can live with only the 7 hours overnight.

However chances of that working out for older heaters or those needing more hours - like those in N Scotland on THTC with upto 12 hours in winter - probably do even regardless as more likely to be store capacity limitted (even the largest Dimplex Quantums only store c23 kWh on e7) - are slim.

I've just had my new rates on e10 - my off peak now getting close to 20p again - and has me thinking of swapping to Snug Octopus.  But I need a meter swap - and Octopus seem to have long delays in some regions right now.  And heating season nearly over I hope.

The 1 hr afternoon boost probably enough for me - and the current 9p off peak rate saving vs my current off peak rate  - if stays competitive after any Apr rise  - will cover a few kWh extra per day at day rate in evenings if doesn't last.

The problem is it really needs a reliable WAN connection too.

So if e10 cannot be configured at install over wan - chances are thats not an option for you either.

Rosie1001

This is a new question / query hence the new post 

I am being offered eco 10 , wether I get that is not known yet , I may end up on eco 7 

I was asking if any one could comment on their experience of meter change with storage heaters , (not HHR ones if possible ) things to ask on day of appointment , and things I need to know moving forward…. 

I am really worried about the meter change , and my supplier wasn’t very helpful , Although lately they have been better in their communication and advice 

Swipe

Just remember to take a photo on the day of the installation before they start and ask the installer if they will be installing a 5 port meter to work with your storage heater circuit.

Rosie1001

Swipe said:

Just remember to take a photo on the day of the installation before they start and ask the installer if they will be installing a 5 port meter to work with your storage heater circuit.

Will do , I want to see the meter before any thing is touched …. Thank you