Kitchen extrator fan - neighbour smelling cooking?

SootySweep1

Hi
What are you cooking that is giving him such an issue ?

I'll be honest & say I have no expert knowledge but if you live in a built up area you must expect 'normal' smells & sounds.

Jen

RavingMad

How is cooking a nuisance? It has to be offensive if it's going to be considered and unless you're cooking something abnormal, I'd not worry about your neighbour any more.  Tell him to close his windows next time but let him try and raise this with the council if he thinks he has a case. You have a right to cook in your own home. Smells waft through the air.  It's not a crime.

 I doubt they will do anything about it especially if there are racist undertones (assumptions as he couldn't be complaining about a full English/Scottish breakfast lol)

casper_gutman

RavingMad said:

I doubt they will do anything about it especially if there are racist undertones (assumptions as he couldn't be complaining about a full English/Scottish breakfast lol)

Well, there are traditional British breakfast foods that could have strong cooking smells associated with them - e.g., kippers. There are also plenty of people who wouldn't appreciate the smell of bacon frying!

I agree it's very unlikely the council will do anything, though.

WIAWSNB

Are people aware of the previous thread? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6584041/kitchen-extrator-fan-neighbour-smelling-cooking#latest

Yes, Blackstar, you have seemingly spent a fair bit of time and expense on this problem, but I think it's also fair to say that you haven't addressed what is likely to be the route cause, or the best solutions to mitigate it.

In a normal kitchen, you'd be able to look at the ceiling and spot any obvious places where smells could get through - spotlight holes, pipes, holes, cracks, repairs, that sort of thing. And these would then be very simple to seal - job done.

Your kitchen has had a false decorative ceiling added for some reason, so we cannot tell what's above it without first removing this, obviously a sizeable task. The false ceiling may now look intact - if you have properly patched up all the obvious holes? - but this being what looks like T&G panelling, it'll likely be seepy along every single joint.

The solutions would appear to be to either remove this false ceiling, patch any holes in the real one, and refit - a lot of work - or to coat or overboard the false ceiling with something that will guarantee to seal it. No idea what to use, but if it's timber, then perhaps a nice layer of PVA brushed firmly into each T&G, ensuring they are sealed, which can then be overcoated with emulsion when dry to make it look good again. Or, get a lightweight panelling to overboard the existing - just mark out where the timber battens run for easy fixing. The edge trims would need to be removed, the whole permimiter sealed with a flexible sealant, and the trims put back on. Ie, if you can seal that whole ceiling, then I suspect you will largely solve the problem - assuming there are no other holes further down the walls.

I think Peter above might be on to something - the fumes may be drawn out of your kitchen and into your neighbour's room above by air pressure, with your room being lower - effectively a chimney-type exhausting. I'd therefore imagine that the escape is occuring at ceiling height or close, and not, say, behind the base units (though they could be!).

And the other solution was to externally vent your hood. Yes, it's a bit more tricky in your situation, but it looks as though it can be done without too much hassle. Really, that's a no-brainer - it'll be better for you too.

On the issue of what can your neighbour do to you? I think he'd struggle, although could apply enough pressure if minded to, using 'nuisance' via the LA, or even his own legal action. What he cannot do is harass you, and you'd be within your rights to remind him of this.

However, if your breakfasts consist of fry-ups - tsk tsk - and there is a smell from this getting into his bedroom, then I have to say I sympathise with him - can you imagine how hellish that would be? If you carry out the two solutions that most likely will sort this - seal the ceiling, extract to the outside - then you'd have done your bit, and be in a very solid position to say, "I've done my bit - the rest is up to you."

Respectfully, at the moment. I don't think you have.

WIAWSNB

Oookkkaaaay...

What are these round discs on your ceiling?

What are these T&G panels made from? Where they end-butt, are there T&Gs there, too, or gaps? You have a large ceiling light - is is sealed inside the rose fitting where the cables come through?

Have you sealed around these pipes? Where do they go to? Are there gaps around them as they possibly pass through the ceiling above?

I think time for a deep breath - just after breakie - and find a good handyperson who will redo your decorative ceiling. This is not a 'big' job, and it involves nice clean T&G boards; it's far less messy and involved than a normal plasterboard ceiling, and should all be doable in an easy couple of days. 

They should: Remove all the panelling. Check the ceiling above for holes and gaps, and seal every single trace of a hole. Make your upper ceiling airtight. Run a flat duct from the hood to the outside wall, as outlined in the other thread. Attach this ducting to the old ceiling. Add additional battens to the existing ones so the false ceiling will be mounted an inch or so lower - this will cover and completely hide the ducting. Refit the old T&G, or fit new. That's it.

You will be much better off yourself, and will have done the right thing by your neighbour. If your cooking smells are getting through your ceiling above, then I believe you are at fault, definitely morally.

RavingMad

Moral responsibility, possibly, but legally I doubt it will go anywhere.

I'm sorry but sociality I don't think we're as caring of neighbours as we were back in day and you would be in the norm to ignore any protests from said neighbour. You have a right not to be harassed for going about normal behaviour ie preparing food whenever you like

WIAWSNB

RavingMad said:

Moral responsibility, possibly, but legally I doubt it will go anywhere.
I'm sorry but sociality I don't think we're as caring of neighbours as we were back in day and you would be in the norm to ignore any protests from said neighbour. You have a right not to be harassed for going about normal behaviour ie preparing food whenever you like

It likely wouldn't be at all straight forward, right enough. But, it depends on the will of the other party, and perhaps whether they'd have Legal Protection helping them. If they began taking 'action' - a couple of stern solicitor's letters, for example - then the OP would need to be of equally stern mettle to not be concerned.

And it really isn't clear. Say the OP just had that boiler installed, and the plumber drill holes through the ceiling in order to run some pipes, leaving gaps around them, and the OP then started cooking regular fry-ups and curries - would the OP be liable? I think so. But I guess the flat upstairs could equally 'easily' take up their floor coverings, and ensure the subfloor is fully sealed.

RavingMad

Would it be any different to the OP opening their windows/doors whenever they cook?  There's no law to stop people doing just that.

I have a log burner but I didn't think at the time that my neighbour might take offense to the smoke and smell. They've never said anything to us about it

blackstar

My neighbour said to me today if it is not fixed ASAP he will take legal action from a solicitor about the cooking smells going into his bedroom.

He is not being very nice at all about the issue, not in a friendly tone at all.

I have a tradesman booked tomorrow at 1pm. I ask the neighbour if he can also be home so he can show tradesman where the smells are getting in. He said he will come from his work at 1pm. He said he will not be happy if he doesn't turn up. 

What I will do is

A) plaster and redo the real ceiling and get rid  of false ceiling. Ensuring all holes and gaps are fully sealed.

B ) get the cooker hood external vented if possible.

C) also get a 150mm fan on an external wall somewhere in the kitchen.  Given their size to get one with automatic backdraft shutters.

Then there's nothing more than I can do. If he still has a problem and he keeps going on about it I will tell him to get a solicitor to send me letters to stop smells coming into his bedroom.

I have been in touch with the council and they said they can't not help with cooking smells getting into a anither person's house unless it's a commercial property.
They said they can help with mediation though. I said yes I am happy to go ahead with this and they said they will be in touch as the situation I am finding very uncomfortable and needs mediation. Especially if all this doesn't work.

If it doesn't work the  it must be a issue with the party wall that had major deficiencies. And that would require major renovation to repair. Well in fact it is an issue with the party wall as smoke and odors are not suppose to pass through it. But the solutions that I am making make solve the issue, it's a kind of a easier solution but mit addressing the root cause of a faulty party wall. 

Just so others know its not a flat it's a terraced property. 

Thanks all so much for all your help.

FreeBear

Whilst not the UK, one case springs to mind - https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/sep/03/vegan-takes-neighbours-to-court-in-western-australia-over-smell-from-barbecues

After losing in court, she faced the prospect of a massive backlash - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/vegan-woman-community-barbecue-sued-neighbours-meat-smells-perth-a9091396.html - The event was eventually cancelled over concerns of trespass & possible harassment.

Whilst your neighbour could threaten legal action, he will find the costs to be exorbitant. Solicitor's letters will likely cost him £200 a pop, but court action is likely to be £20,000 or more (and he'd be unlikely to recover the costs from you).