Kitchen extrator fan - neighbour smelling cooking?

ThisIsWeird

blackstar said:

Agree. It's not even a flat. They are terraced houses we are in separated by brick party walls. 

Ah, yes, it was their upstairs bedroom.
Can't really suggest anything further. Your false ceiling hides what the real ceiling is like - that'll remain an issue if it is allowing odours to pass into the ceiling void, and then through to next door; it's possible for the joist support holes in the party wall between terraced houses of a certain age to be quite gappy. To try and sort this will require one of you to lift your upstairs floorboards, check for this, and to inject foam to seal. 
You don't even know, for example, if the original ceiling had down-lights fitted which were removed when the false ceiling went up, leaving a series of open holes. But whether you'd be responsible or liable in any way even in such a situation, I cannot say; who has the ultimate responsibility for fully air-sealing their terraced property?! No idea.
I'd hazard that obvious holes and gaps in a ceiling carries some responsibility to sort, but you don't know - and cannot without much work - whether this is the case here.
Although I sympathise with your situation, I can also acknowledge that cooking smells entering a bedroom from next door will also be very undesirable for your neighb.
How far to take possible solutions is up to you and your neighbour. Bottom line, tho' - a recirculating hood will never be as effective as a venting type, and that could be the simplest solution.

blackstar

Hello all

We would appreciate some advice.

We have an ongoing dispute with our mextdoor neighbour regarding him smelling our cooking smells from our doorstairs kitchen into his upstairs bedroom.

This is not a flat but is a terraced property, seperated by a party wall.

We have spent many hours of our spare time sealing our kitchen ceiling of any gaps, buying and installing a brand new recirculating cooking hood and calling and looking for experts or trades people to find and rectify this problem he has. 
I have contacted about 150 trades, from building surveyors, joiners, builders, bricklayers and plasters to name but a few. They have either not been able to help or simply said they were too busy to help.

Which I think is above and beyond what most neighbours would do and I have run out of options.

My question is not really what else can we do but what is our legal obligation in terms of odors from our kitchen going into his bedroom? Is it black and white or is it a grey area?

All I can find is this:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/guidance-accompany-statutory-nuisance-provisions-public-health-etc-scotland-act/pages/5/

We are in Scotland.

He was very annoyed today and rude and said to the effect of "I've been telling you for months now and you still have not resolved this issue"

Me "I have done everything practically possible and spent money and hours of my time and also hours trying to find someone who can fix this issue but I have run out of options, can you maybe see if you can help find someone who can fix this issue"

Neighbour "Its not up to me to find someone or fix the issue as the cooking smells are coming from your kirchen into my property. You have to sort this or I will contact the counil and they will send you letters until you fix the issue".

I did contact the council after we spoke and they said they only intervine if it's a commercial property.

I wanted to say to him, tell me where in law then it says I have to resolve this cooking odor you can smell in your property. 
I am pretty sure there is none and he should be grateful I have been doing all this to try and resolve the issue.

I spoke to a building company today and they said there must be discrepancies in the party wall as a intact party wall prevents smoke and would also prevent cooking odors and it would require substantial renovations and at a large cost to repair a party wall. 

TheGreenFrog

Well there is a law, the law of nuisance.  But I don't think it could be used against you in this situation - unless he can point to some defect in your property which is causing the smell to get into his house and which defect you are refusing to fix.  It doesn't sound like he can point to any defect - and if it were identified as a fault in the party wall it would probably be up to you both to fix it (but it seems to me very unlikely it is a party wall defect)  

Maybe try to work out with him how the smells are entering his property, for example go to his house while someone is cooking in yours.  And also consider whether you are cooking especially smelly food and if it is only that which causes the smell in his property; whether things are better if you open kitchen window etc etc.  

Note:  the law of nuisance I refer to is not the statutory one you have linked to.  It is what is known as a tort, and is not in a statute.  You can google it, but ensure you have the words nuisance tort and Scotland in your search (as English tort law not the same as Scottish).

Lorian

Can you change the hood fan to an extractor to the outside?

If not are you sure it's set to recirculation some need an adjustment inside. Does it have a charcoal filter?

No holes behind the fan unit?

Doozergirl

Lorian said:

Can you change the hood fan to an extractor to the outside?

If not are you sure it's set to recirculation some need an adjustment inside. Does it have a charcoal filter?

No holes behind the fan unit?

That would solve it to a large degree.     Extract the air properly rather than have it recirculate but attempt to block an unknown gap in a wall.  

Bigphil1474

I think the law is different in Scotland to England. In England it could be a stat nuisance and councils do deal with domestic nuisance (same legislation for noise, odour, light etc.) I expect it will be similar in Scotland but might be worth finding out the rules where you live. Generally it can only be a stat nuisance if a reasonable person would call it a nuisance and there are measures you could take to prevent it. Music is a good example - if your music is so loud your neighbour can't hear their TV then it could be a stat nuisance if it happens often, and there is clearly a simple way to prevent the nuisance. 

Agree with above, you need extraction not recirculation. Recirculating fans won't remove odours. If you can't stop the smell emanating into his bedroom, can you alter the times you cook slightly so it doesn't affect him as much? Is it everything you cook or just some things? Is the neighbour a bit whackadoodle? Ultimately, your neighbour and the council would have to prove it's a nuisance to take action, but it's better not to get the authorities involved.

blackstar

There are logistically problems with getting it externally vented due to space, the gas boiler pipes being being vented in same area, window, parallel joists meaning we would have to maybe cut holes in joists, not being able to find a competent tradesperson, tradespeople saying its too difficult etc.

His schedule is is he leaves for work at 11am and it's breakfast that bothers him as he doesn't return home until 9 or 10pm and we have done cooking long before that. But we cook breakfast between 8 -9am and that's when it bothers him. 
We can't not cook breakfast. 

Bigphil1474

Well, technically you can not cook breakfast, but you are perfectly entitled to cook your breakfast when you want.

To be honest it sounds like you need to decide whether you want the ongoing hassle, or get it sorted one way or another. Depends on the neighbour really. If they are worth being nice to, if I can't fix the extraction or stop the smells penetrating, I'd consider offering to only cook alternate days maybe, or have second breakfast later after he has gone out (Hobbit Style)

ic

blackstar said:

There are logistically problems with getting it externally vented due to space, the gas boiler pipes being being vented in same area, window, parallel joists meaning we would have to maybe cut holes in joists, not being able to find a competent tradesperson, tradespeople saying its too difficult etc.

His schedule is is he leaves for work at 11am and it's breakfast that bothers him as he doesn't return home until 9 or 10pm and we have done cooking long before that. But we cook breakfast between 8 -9am and that's when it bothers him. 
We can't not cook breakfast. 

English building regs for new installs only allow a recirculating hood if a 60l/s extractor is installed elsewhere in the room.  A recirculating hood is only good for capturing grease in its charcoal filters and some of the smell, you need to extract the air externally to rid yourselves of the damp air and smells.

Any electrician could install a 150mm fan to do the job - just needs to be on an external wall somewhere in the kitchen.  Given their size, get one with automatic backdraft shutters to prevent draughts when not running.

peter021072

I have a similar problem, but I'm on the receiving side.  It's taken me a long time to find out which house is the source of the cooking smell, because there are 3 others joined onto it. At first I assumed it was my next door neighbour, but  I now think it's the house which is adjoined at the back of me.  A long while ago they made extensive renovations in the bathroom area and I suspect they made a hole between our properties, possibly in the joist space gap between the roof of the kitchen and floor of the bathroom (you can't see this). So now when the wind is in a particular direction, and their windows are open, it sets up enough pressure to push air from their kitchen into my kitchen and bathroom via the cavity. Despite new owners, I still get the same problem. 

I suspect you may be opening your windows thinking this helps. However, if the windows are opened in the direction of the wind it will pressurise the air in your house and squeeze it through any gaps into the adjoining house rather than out of the window. So counterintuitively try closing the windows in the direction of the wind.  Another way would be to extract the air through a window opposite to the direction of the wind.  A powerful extractor in a 'chimney' duct should work as well because that will create negative pressure all over your house drawing air in rather than pushing it out.

At least you are trying, that would reduce anxiety in my case even if it doesn't work. It's when people can't be bothered.