Is my meter an RTS meter?

QrizB

ripofflondon said:

My meter is as in the pic.  Is it RTS and, if so, does it need changing by end June? 

That's an Ampy 5196D, from 2004.

Not an RTS meter and with a 25 year life, sio should be good until 2029.

That little skinny wire to the bottom-right of the meter, where does it go? Does it connect to an E7 heating contactor, something like a Proteus EHC 1? I'm not suggesting there's a problem, just curious!

If you have storage heaters, you could save perhaps £150-200 a year with a smart meter and tariff switch.

Gerry1

Your meter is good until April 2029.

However, you may well have an RTS unit nearby - where does the thin grey wire go?

Edit: Beaten to it again...

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

Your meter is good until April 2029.

However, you may well have an RTS unit nearby - where does the thin grey wire go?

Edit: Beaten to it again...

Sorry @Gerry1 , I've got a day off so I'm hanging out here rather than doing any of my long list of overdue chores

ripofflondon

Hi both

Thanks for responses.  Am going down there in the next week or 2 so will have a proper look (at where that thinner bottom cable leads to) and put pics back on here. 

Maybe I jumped the gun a bit by posting this message as soon as I did - it was because I saw the article re RTS switch-off in my newsfeed just today!  

KR

Mark

Scot_39

ripofflondon said:

Hi all

I was going to start my own thread re the RTS meter issue but if others have also jumped on THIS thread then I will too!

My meter is as in the pic.  Is it RTS and, if so, does it need changing by end June?  

Pls advise if you can.

Cheers

Mark

I have not been able to find a manual for the 5196 A/B?/D series by a quick google - but think it follows the same series lettering as the later 5235 L&G model  (who took over Ampy)

https://www.solartradesales.co.uk/Cache/Downloads/L-and-G-5235-User-ManualBrochure-info.pdf

If its the same - as above 5235 - its an old dual rate meter - but unlike current smart meters - I believe like the 5235 - it is a slave to an external rate switch timer - not in control of the timing.

My smart meter controls the timing - but uses an external contactor as per the @QrizB comment above to do the switching - a 5 port smart meter or later digital model would do the timing and switching internally.

But suspect this one is as above the slave not the master for switching rates / devices.

So suspect this one relies on an external switch - "driving" the smaller grey wire - probably from the black box next to it in the photo that we cannot see. 

I have seen at least one picture of the 5196D with an old electromechanical timeswitch.  And one really old thread here c2014 - suggesting that the timeswitch had lost real time - and giving the OP off peak at abnormal times.

If I'm correct (I might not be) the thin grey wire is an "input" not a timed output.  It simply tells the meter what rate to use.

It doesn't do any switching of loads etc by itself - it itself is simply a dual rate meter.

We need to see what is the other end of the thin grey wire.

From the govt approvals list

AMPY/L+G 5196 1 2 1 Multi 933 25

The 25 is the certifiaction period - so 2004 + 25 = 4 years left.

But it could well be driven be a RTS switch - or just an old electromechanical one which might also be EOL. Most will be - or a new supplier wont trust them to keep you switching correctly so might only offer single rate.

Example of 5196D with RTS time switch

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81018510/#Comment_81018510

Example of 5196D with electromechanical time switch

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80742130/#Comment_80742130

LL123LL

Hello, me again. Octopus REALLY aren’t letting this drop. I emailed them (with photos) to inform them for the 10th time that my meter is not RTS and that their records perhaps show an old meter from this property and this is their response:

“We have the meter D16C43844 on record which is the one in the photo. Every meter has what is called a register. 1 rate meters have one register and 2 rate meters have two. Every register has as associated ID which determines some of the meter information and what time the register records usage. For your meter's day time register, the ID is 01059 (Weekdays & Weekends 0000-0015, 0715-2400), for night time it is 01060 (All days 0015-0715). Any of the IDs in 1000s are RTS meters, this is why we believe your meter is an RTS meter.”

I am very confused 😵‍💫 Are they, just, wrong? Or is there some possible way I do have an RTS meter?! Reattaching photos of my meter for ease.

Thank you!

LL123LL

Ildhund said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Maybe someone here could identify the most relevant part(s) of the specification document upthread to show them it doesn't use RTS.

The MTC from the MPAN might give a clue. See this earlier post: Meter Timeswitch Codes (MTC) for electricity meters 

Thank you for this, I have read this post but I’m afraid I don’t really understand it!

Scot_39

LL123LL said:

Hello, me again. Octopus REALLY aren’t letting this drop. I emailed them (with photos) to inform them for the 10th time that my meter is not RTS and that their records perhaps show an old meter from this property and this is their response:

“We have the meter D16C43844 on record which is the one in the photo. Every meter has what is called a register. 1 rate meters have one register and 2 rate meters have two. Every register has as associated ID which determines some of the meter information and what time the register records usage. For your meter's day time register, the ID is 01059 (Weekdays & Weekends 0000-0015, 0715-2400), for night time it is 01060 (All days 0015-0715). Any of the IDs in 1000s are RTS meters, this is why we believe your meter is an RTS meter.”

I am very confused 😵‍💫 Are they, just, wrong? Or is there some possible way I do have an RTS meter?! Reattaching photos of my meter for ease.

Thank you!

It is possible that your meter replaced an old RTS metr and your supplier at the time set the peak and off peak register timing the 0015 0715 am to match the old meter timings. That may not have matched the old regional dno timings.

I posted a link to the data sheet for the meter series it iirc makes no reference to a lw radio interface.   You could send them that.

As l+g are potententiially still a current producer, you might actually be able to get a definitive answer from them direct..


We're people still making or fitting rts meters c2016  when yours was certified ?

And from above it has a 20 yr max life ?

But your meter could in suspect  be replaced by a 5 port smets2 - even if it was a little taller it might fit in that space -  which if your in a good signal area could get you onto a cheaper tariff like snug for nsh or iirc cosy for ashp / boiler type.

Swipe

As advised previously, just ignore them if you don't want a smart meter or just put an end to your worry and have it swapped.

Ildhund

LL123LL said:

Ildhund said:

The MTC from the MPAN might give a clue. See this earlier post: Meter Timeswitch Codes (MTC) for electricity meters 

Thank you for this, I have read this post but I’m afraid I don’t really understand it!

It is really rather convoluted, I'm afraid. If you told us your MTC (the middle box in the top line of your MPAN), I could track down your configuration. Another vital piece of information I don't think you've shared is your location. I think I've worked out that you're in the Southern region, but that would also be apparent from the MPAN - the first two digits on the bottom line (20?). I'm guessing, too, that your MTC is 805 - can you confirm or refute, please?

There is a convention, but not a rule, that TPRs higher than 00999 (like your 01059 and 01060) are reserved for RTS systems, so Octopus aren't wrong, as such. Your system has been an RTS one at some stage, but that doesn't mean it still is. If it was a non-programmable teleswitch system (which is what MTC 805 means), there was no reason for SSE to muck about changing TPRs when the teleswitch was dismantled, because the timings would just stay as they were. It could be that Octopus are aiming to revise customers' MPANs so they no longer give misleading information, but that would most simply involve a meter exchange.

I'd echo what some others have said - get the meter exchanged for a smart one. It will have to be exchanged at some stage, so there's no need to delay the inevitable. The benefits far outweigh any perceived disadvantages.