Is Section 75 or Chargeback applicable?

kuepper

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

Nebulous2

I had a nightmare trying to reclaim after being locked down in New Zealand during Covid. One of the biggest issues was that my insurer wanted a breakdown as to how much of the flight cost related to the return trip. I had a single price for the return flight, and the agent simply shut of their phones for about 6 months and wouldn't give me the information. 

You'll need to get that breakdown - I assume from booking.com. They may not play ball if they know what you need it for. In my case the outward flight was quite a bit more than the return flight, primarily because of UK air passenger duty and other charges. 

It will also be complicated by you cancelling one leg yourself - this is going to be a nightmare to unravel. 

Ever since my issues with getting home from New Zealand I've tried to book direct with the airline, regardless of whether it is more expensive, because I've more faith in them to do the right thing than in most agents. 

kuepper

Nebulous2 said:

Ever since my issues with getting home from New Zealand I've tried to book direct with the airline, regardless of whether it is more expensive, because I've more faith in them to do the right thing than in most agents. 

Yes I've already reached the same conclusion except the airline i'd been booked with Japan Airlines have been no help at any stage, never offered alternative flights/rerouting etc they just didn't want to know There's no chat facility or email address for them (unless you have a hearing or speech disability and can provide proof ). So if I book direct with an airline in future I'll check their contact facilities first.

Nebulous2

kuepper said:

Nebulous2 said:

Ever since my issues with getting home from New Zealand I've tried to book direct with the airline, regardless of whether it is more expensive, because I've more faith in them to do the right thing than in most agents. 

Yes I've already reached the same conclusion except the airline i'd been booked with Japan Airlines have been no help at any stage, never offered alternative flights/rerouting etc they just didn't want to know There's no chat facility or email address for them (unless you have a hearing or speech disability and can provide proof ). So if I book direct with an airline in future I'll check their contact facilities first.

Unfortunately the airline  will have limited obligation to you as you booked through an agent.

I was the same, I tried Singapore Airlines direct for the price breakdown I needed, I can't remember all the details,  they were vaguely helpful, but not enough to satisfy my insurance company. 

Looking at JAL there appears to be a European contact centre in London, but only for people who book through it. They will have some obligation to you for flights originating in the UK under EU legislation but it's likely for you that sits with the agent. 

This is quite a specialised area, and I'm certainly not an expert. It might be worth asking for the thread to be moved to the travel forum. There are a lot of knowledgeable people there who may be able to help. 

born_again

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

Well you cant use chargeback for the one you cancelled & I would say that CC will take same stance on S75 as well. 

You need to talk to the CC not just message then, as there is a lot of detail that they need to have.

Who is the debit to on your statement?

Were the flights booked as a single trip with airline, so  A to C via B or separate so, A to B & then B to C as that is going to make a big difference.

kuepper

born_again said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

Well you cant use chargeback for the one you cancelled & I would say that CC will take same stance on S75 as well. 

You need to talk to the CC not just message then, as there is a lot of detail that they need to have.

Who is the debit to on your statement?

Were the flights booked as a single trip with airline, so  A to C via B or separate so, A to B & then B to C as that is going to make a big difference.

My cc statement shows the payment went to 'Booking.com London'. I don't know how they were booked with the airline  as that was done by Booking.com 

heatherw_01

One important thing here: If you booked 2 separate flights (i.e not a return), then you have no rights to a refund for the other flight.

Just because one flight wasn't going to operate, doesn't give you the rights to a refund for a totally separate flight.

If it was a return, then that is different.
But if it is was 2 separate flights, you have no claim for the second flight.

kuepper

heatherw_01 said:

One important thing here: If you booked 2 separate flights (i.e not a return), then you have no rights to a refund for the other flight.

Just because one flight wasn't going to operate, doesn't give you the rights to a refund for a totally separate flight.

If it was a return, then that is different.
But if it is was 2 separate flights, you have no claim for the second flight.

Sorry but I don't understand the distinction you make. I only ever made one booking with Booking.com which included flying to Japan from Manchester to Osaka via Helsinki and returning from Japan flying from Tokyo to Manchester via Helsinki. It was the flight from Helsinki to Manchester that was cancelled and as there were no alternative flights offered from Helsinki to Manchester, in order to get home on the day I'd expected to be home I had no option but to cancel the flight from Tokyo to Manchester and book new flights and the cheapest were with Cathay Pacific via Hong Kong

eDicky

Ok forget about return booking or not, the important point is whether the two legs of your inward flights were a single through booking of connecting flights with the same (or partner) airline and single PNR, or, two separate flights cobbled together by the agent you purchased from. You need to distinguish this, regardless that you booked the itinerary as a whole.

If the former, the airline (Finnair?) had a duty to convey you to your destination in a timely manner, at no extra cost, even if by a different airline and/or route.

If the latter, it would be the agent who should rearrange flights, but good luck with that.

With whom did you cancel the remaining leg, and why? Were you advised to do so?

Olinda99

It's like booking train tickets on for example trainline

supposing you want to go from London to Manchester with a change at Birmingham

if you buy one ticket then if the Birmingham to Manchester is cancelled you can claim a refund or go on different trains


If, however, you buy two Singles (I believe it's called split singles on trainline) and if the Birmingham to Manchester City is cancelled you have no rights as it is just a single ticket and not depend on any other tickets

Thus if booking.com had booked you two separate singles for the return trip you would have no claim if one of the singles was cancelled

you should always always ensure you have a proper return ticket issued by one airline even if the journey involves multiple changes and airlines. booking.com is not the place to go.

kuepper

eDicky said:

Ok forget about return booking or not, the important point is whether the two legs of your inward flights were a single through booking of connecting flights with the same (or partner) airline and single PNR, or, two separate flights cobbled together by the agent you purchased from. You need to distinguish this, regardless that you booked the itinerary as a whole.

If the former, the airline (Finnair?) had a duty to convey you to your destination in a timely manner, at no extra cost, even if by a different airline and/or route.

If the latter, it would be the agent who should rearrange flights, but good luck with that.

With whom did you cancel the remaining leg, and why? Were you advised to do so?

Well the inward flights were both due to be with Finnair as were my outward flights but Booking.com booked my flights with Japan Airlines so the actual airline/aeroplanes were Finnair codeshared with Japan Airlines. I don't know how I would know there was a single PNR but I have the same booking reference for all flights PNXXXX if that's what you mean. I had the same ticket number for all flights too.

Finnair never notified me of the cancellation, only Japan Airlines did (by email) on 26th November and later the same day I received an email from 'Gotogate in partnership with Booking.com' also advising me of the cancellation but offering no alternative flight/s..Whether they had a duty or not neither Finnair nor Japan Airlines offered me any alternative way home, they never advised me of my rights and both referred me to the agent I'd booked with Booking.com who said there were no alternative flights they could provide. I said I didn't mind travelling via other routes/airlines etc but they repeated they could not offer me any alternative route home at all which I told them was ridiculous and incredible but that's what they said was the situation.

There was no-one else to get advice from and I only had my phone to use to deal with all this which was seriously affecting my holiday. I was totally stressed, I'm in my late 70s  and not really tech savvy and I felt the need for a settled outcome asap especially as I knew my medication would run out on 9th December so needed to be home to get some more. So I decided it was pointless taking the flight from Tokyo to Helsinki and being stranded there not knowing when I could get home. So the only way I could arrive home from Japan on 9th December as planned with a) certainty and b) at reasonable cost was to make a new booking (with a different agency - Expedia) flying via Hong Kong with Cathay Pacific at a cost of £501.83.

Once that was booked I contacted 'Gotogate in partnership with booking.com' by email and asked them to cancel my flight from Tokyo to Helsinki and asked for refunds for both that flight and the flight that had already been cancelled by the airline.I received an email from them which suggested it would take 10-15 business days for me to receive a refund. Booking.com are saying they can't refund me anything until they've got money from the airline (Japan Airlines I presume). and up to today that's still the case.