Is Section 75 or Chargeback applicable?

DullGreyGuy

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

kuepper

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

I flew with Finnair from Manchester via Helsinki to Japan and was meant to do the same coming back from Tokyo to Manchester. My flights had Japan Airlines codes so they had been booked with Japan Airlines. I had the same ticket number and booking reference throughout for all 4 flights, there were no self transfers.

Tonight Booking.con have dropped a bombshell. They've told me via chat (I ask every day for updates on my refund) that the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled. So they misled me into thinking I still had the option to fly to Helsinki and that I was the one who cancelled the Helsinki to Manchester flight. I'm sure this misunderstanding has been caused by English not being the 1st language of their agents using email and chat. It also means Japan Airlines misinformed me that only the Helsinki-Manchester flight was cancelled.

Olinda99

from what you say then you should have a claim against the airline JAL

This might help


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/holiday-cancellations-and-compensation/if-your-flights-delayed-or-cancelled/
 

kuepper

Olinda99 said:

from what you say then you should have a claim against the airline JAL

This might help


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/holiday-cancellations-and-compensation/if-your-flights-delayed-or-cancelled/
 

Yes but that's a separate matter to a refund

gt94sss2

Did you have travel insurance?

kuepper

gt94sss2 said:

Did you have travel insurance?

Yes, AXA have told me I can claim the difference between what I get as a refund and the cost of the new flights I had to book, so I can't submit a claim until I know how much refund I'm getting l. 

born_again

kuepper said:

gt94sss2 said:

Did you have travel insurance?

Yes, AXA have told me I can claim the difference between what I get as a refund and the cost of the new flights I had to book, so I can't submit a claim until I know how much refund I'm getting l. 

As you cancelled the 2nd flight there maybe no refund if it was non refundable.

eDicky

kuepper said:

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

 the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled.

neither Finnair nor Japan Airlines offered me any alternative way home, they never advised me of my rights and both referred me to the agent I'd booked with Booking.com who said there were no alternative flights they could provide.

It's normal when one flight sector of a two-leg flight is cancelled by the airline (meaning that the flight itself is no longer operating), the other leg will be cancelled for the customer because it's no longer any use if there's no suitable flight to replace the one no longer operating.

Finnair/JAL were obliged to find and book your passage on alternative flights/route to your destination, but unfortunately you booked through an agent so they couldn't arrange this with you directly, it had to be done through Booking.com/Gotogate. It's totally unacceptable that the latter told you that no alternative flights were available.

So in that respect, if it comes to a chargeback or S75 claim, in my view it should be against Booking.com as your contract was with them. Others here may correct me on this point.

Having made your own alternative flight arrangements, as a necessity, if it were within Europe you could easily claim back their cost from the airline, who often prefer their customers to do such a thing when their flight is cancelled. But with your flights originating outside Europe and involving an agent, I'm not sure whether you clearly have such rights.

Posters on the Travel board would likely be able to clarify - your duplicate post there was unfortunately closed but you might start another with the specific questions in order to know exactly what to present factually to your card provider.

kuepper

eDicky said:

kuepper said:

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

 the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled.

neither Finnair nor Japan Airlines offered me any alternative way home, they never advised me of my rights and both referred me to the agent I'd booked with Booking.com who said there were no alternative flights they could provide.

It's normal when one flight sector of a two-leg flight is cancelled by the airline (meaning that the flight itself is no longer operating), the other leg will be cancelled for the customer because it's no longer any use if there's no suitable flight to replace the one no longer operating.

Finnair/JAL were obliged to find and book your passage on alternative flights/route to your destination, but unfortunately you booked through an agent so they couldn't arrange this with you directly, it had to be done through Booking.com/Gotogate. It's totally unacceptable that the latter told you that no alternative flights were available.

So in that respect, if it comes to a chargeback or S75 claim, in my view it should be against Booking.com as your contract was with them. Others here may correct me on this point.

Having made your own alternative flight arrangements, as a necessity, if it were within Europe you could easily claim back their cost from the airline, who often prefer their customers to do such a thing when their flight is cancelled. But with your flights originating outside Europe and involving an agent, I'm not sure whether you clearly have such rights.

Posters on the Travel board would likely be able to clarify - your duplicate post there was unfortunately closed but you might start another with the specific questions in order to know exactly what to present factually to your card provider.

Yesterday I discovered Gotogate/Booking.con misinformed me that the airline cancelled both flights, it was just the Helsinlki-Manchester flight. I also discovered from Japan Airlines that they haven't yet processed my refund to Booking.con so it's not the latter holding up my refund. 

I've banged in a claim with the Coop bank 'card disputes' team explaining all the circumstances and so they'll decide what if anything they can do.

Out of interest If I'd booked a package (an organised tour including flights) instead of buying flights separately via Booking.con would that have made a difference in the event of flight cancellation?

saajan_12

kuepper said:

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

Tonight Booking.con have dropped a bombshell. They've told me via chat (I ask every day for updates on my refund) that the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled. So they misled me into thinking I still had the option to fly to Helsinki and that I was the one who cancelled the Helsinki to Manchester flight. I'm sure this misunderstanding has been caused by English not being the 1st language of their agents using email and chat. It also means Japan Airlines misinformed me that only the Helsinki-Manchester flight was cancelled.

That actually makes it better for you, sounds like it was indeed a single ticket and they have confirmed cancelling one leg was tantamount to them cancelling the whole journey back, so you don't have to argue the toss about who cancelled what. 

When the airline cancels, you can either get a refund OR rerouting (ie they cover the alternative flights Japan - Manchester) so it would have been easier to claim the latter directly. However you end up with the same result by getting a refund and then the difference from the insurance (barring any excess you have). 
At this stage if its only been 3 weeks, then you may need to wait a little longer but do keep chasing. On another flight delay on another airline, it took 6 months to get a satisfactory response and payment, but they did eventually pay.