Is Section 75 or Chargeback applicable?

eDicky

kuepper said:

eDicky said:

kuepper said:

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

 the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled.

neither Finnair nor Japan Airlines offered me any alternative way home, they never advised me of my rights and both referred me to the agent I'd booked with Booking.com who said there were no alternative flights they could provide.

It's normal when one flight sector of a two-leg flight is cancelled by the airline (meaning that the flight itself is no longer operating), the other leg will be cancelled for the customer because it's no longer any use if there's no suitable flight to replace the one no longer operating.

Finnair/JAL were obliged to find and book your passage on alternative flights/route to your destination, but unfortunately you booked through an agent so they couldn't arrange this with you directly, it had to be done through Booking.com/Gotogate. It's totally unacceptable that the latter told you that no alternative flights were available.

So in that respect, if it comes to a chargeback or S75 claim, in my view it should be against Booking.com as your contract was with them. Others here may correct me on this point.

Having made your own alternative flight arrangements, as a necessity, if it were within Europe you could easily claim back their cost from the airline, who often prefer their customers to do such a thing when their flight is cancelled. But with your flights originating outside Europe and involving an agent, I'm not sure whether you clearly have such rights.

Posters on the Travel board would likely be able to clarify - your duplicate post there was unfortunately closed but you might start another with the specific questions in order to know exactly what to present factually to your card provider.

Yesterday I discovered Gotogate/Booking.con misinformed me that the airline cancelled both flights, it was just the Helsinlki-Manchester flight. I also discovered from Japan Airlines that they haven't yet processed my refund to Booking.con so it's not the latter holding up my refund. 

I've banged in a claim with the Coop bank 'card disputes' team explaining all the circumstances and so they'll decide what if anything they can do.

Out of interest If I'd booked a package (an organised tour including flights) instead of buying flights separately via Booking.con would that have made a difference in the event of flight cancellation?

You won't receive any refund from booking.com before they receive it from JAL.

Flight cancellation by an airline gives you the right to either a refund or re-routing, you cannot claim both. I'm reminded that you requested refund so they will not pay for the alternative flights you took to return home.

If it was indeed only the Helsinki to Manchester flight that was cancelled by the airline, and the Tokyo to Helsinki flight was operating normally, if you had not cancelled anything yourself you could have taken the latter flight with your alternative onward travel to Manchester arranged by JAL/Finnair, by the most suitable route and timing available on any airline, with hotel and meals provision if applicable.

Booking a tour package with an agent gives you more rights, the tour operator being responsible for all alternative arrangements.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-cancellation-compensation/

kuepper

eDicky said:

kuepper said:

eDicky said:

kuepper said:

DullGreyGuy said:

kuepper said:

I paid £829.25 to Booking.com for a return flight by cc. The flights were in 2 legs each way. For the inward journey one of the legs was cancelled by the airline and the other leg was therefore no use to me so I cancelled it, asked Booking.com for refunds for the 2 cancelled flights and booked new flights with Expedia.  A month later Booking.com are saying they can't refund me because they haven't been refunded themselves by the airline (even though initially they said I'd get my refund within 10-15 days). I don't know whether that's true or not and the airline say they can't comment and said I'd have to deal with Booking.com. I'm around £1k out of pocket through having to buy new flights and not having any refund from Booking.com.

I contacted Citizen's Advice and they suggested asking my bank to raise a s75 claim. I message the bank to that effect and their reply didn't mention s75 just chargeback so I don't know what I'm supposed to do. As my outward journey was completed I don't know how the refund would be calculated so I haven't got a specific figure to quote for the amount of refund due, but I presume it wouldn't be 50% of £829.25 as I was meant to fly out from a different airport to the one I arrived at  What happens in that case and what's the relevant route to use - s75 or chargeback - to reclaim the money for the cancelled flights?

You need to be clear if its was a straight through ticket and you just happened to have to change somewhere or if it was a "self transfer" (or whatever name Booking.com has given two seperate tickets). Was it a through ticket? If you dont know then say which airline(s) and which airports

When was it cancelled in relation to the outward journey?



S75 won't apply, you bought from an agent

Chargeback will depend... if it was a continuous ticket then the airline should have suggested other flights that worked or looked to have moved both flights. If however its a "self transfer"  then the two legs are unrelated and the fact you were unable to get to the second leg is irrelevant, as long as the second leg flew you'd have no automatic right to a refund. One of the reasons that self transfers/hack fares are cheaper is because there is no liability for the connection not working. 

 the airline cancelled BOTH flights of the inward journey, that when one flight is cancelled the connecting flight is also cancelled.

neither Finnair nor Japan Airlines offered me any alternative way home, they never advised me of my rights and both referred me to the agent I'd booked with Booking.com who said there were no alternative flights they could provide.

It's normal when one flight sector of a two-leg flight is cancelled by the airline (meaning that the flight itself is no longer operating), the other leg will be cancelled for the customer because it's no longer any use if there's no suitable flight to replace the one no longer operating.

Finnair/JAL were obliged to find and book your passage on alternative flights/route to your destination, but unfortunately you booked through an agent so they couldn't arrange this with you directly, it had to be done through Booking.com/Gotogate. It's totally unacceptable that the latter told you that no alternative flights were available.

So in that respect, if it comes to a chargeback or S75 claim, in my view it should be against Booking.com as your contract was with them. Others here may correct me on this point.

Having made your own alternative flight arrangements, as a necessity, if it were within Europe you could easily claim back their cost from the airline, who often prefer their customers to do such a thing when their flight is cancelled. But with your flights originating outside Europe and involving an agent, I'm not sure whether you clearly have such rights.

Posters on the Travel board would likely be able to clarify - your duplicate post there was unfortunately closed but you might start another with the specific questions in order to know exactly what to present factually to your card provider.

Yesterday I discovered Gotogate/Booking.con misinformed me that the airline cancelled both flights, it was just the Helsinlki-Manchester flight. I also discovered from Japan Airlines that they haven't yet processed my refund to Booking.con so it's not the latter holding up my refund. 

I've banged in a claim with the Coop bank 'card disputes' team explaining all the circumstances and so they'll decide what if anything they can do.

Out of interest If I'd booked a package (an organised tour including flights) instead of buying flights separately via Booking.con would that have made a difference in the event of flight cancellation?

You won't receive any refund from booking.com before they receive it from JAL.

Flight cancellation by an airline gives you the right to either a refund or re-routing, you cannot claim both. I'm reminded that you requested refund so they will not pay for the alternative flights you took to return home.

If it was indeed only the Helsinki to Manchester flight that was cancelled by the airline, and the Tokyo to Helsinki flight was operating normally, if you had not cancelled anything yourself you could have taken the latter flight with your alternative onward travel to Manchester arranged by JAL/Finnair, by the most suitable route and timing available on any airline, with hotel and meals provision if applicable.

Booking a tour package with an agent gives you more rights, the tour operator being responsible for all alternative arrangements.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-cancellation-compensation/

I wanted re-routing but booking.con said i could only have a refund as there were no available flights. I contacted Finnair and JAL  and they just said I had to deal with Booking.con. 

kuepper

The bank have said I haven't got grounds for a s75 claim as I didn't pay Japan Airlines directly, but that the circumstances do meet the Chargeback criteria of the VISA scheme so fingers crossed

eDicky

Chargeback against Booking.com..?

kuepper

eDicky said:

Chargeback against Booking.com..?

I assume so as that's who I paid. They have a month to respond and I've not heard anything yet

HillStreetBlues

Reading this thread B.com acted as a travel agent, you bought the tickets from them, then they buy the tickets from the airline (and make money doing so).
The airline should refund B.com and B.com should refund you. Those are two separate transactions, if the airline doesn't refund B.com that should be no concern to you.
 

Caz3121

this is what Booking.com terms say re flights (they use Gotogate as the third party aggregator)

E2. Contractual relationship

1. Most Flights on our Platform are provided via a Third-Party Aggregator, which acts as an intermediary to the airline(s).

2. When you make a Booking, it’s directly with the airline. We’re not a ‘contractual party’ to your Booking. When booking, you enter into (i) an Intermediation Contract with the Third-Party Aggregator (for the ticket) and (ii) a Contract of Carriage with the airline (for the Flight itself).

3. If you book any extras (additional baggage, insurance, etc.), you’ll enter into a direct contract with the Third-Party Aggregator or another company. We will not be involved in this contract.

4. We act solely as the Platform and are not involved in the Third-Party Terms. We are not responsible for your ticket or any extras you may buy and (to the fullest extent permitted by law) have no liability to you in relation to your Booking.

HillStreetBlues

Caz3121 said:

this is what Booking.com terms say re flights (they use Gotogate as the third party aggregator)

E2. Contractual relationship

1. Most Flights on our Platform are provided via a Third-Party Aggregator, which acts as an intermediary to the airline(s).

2. When you make a Booking, it’s directly with the airline. We’re not a ‘contractual party’ to your Booking. When booking, you enter into (i) an Intermediation Contract with the Third-Party Aggregator (for the ticket) and (ii) a Contract of Carriage with the airline (for the Flight itself).

3. If you book any extras (additional baggage, insurance, etc.), you’ll enter into a direct contract with the Third-Party Aggregator or another company. We will not be involved in this contract.

4. We act solely as the Platform and are not involved in the Third-Party Terms. We are not responsible for your ticket or any extras you may buy and (to the fullest extent permitted by law) have no liability to you in relation to your Booking.

 Basically it's staying there is no liability unless the law states there is. 

kuepper

HillStreetBlues said:

, if the airline doesn't refund B.com that should be no concern to you.
 

I've told them that but it makes no difference, they just repeat the mantra that they can't pay me til JAL refunds them. What if JAL never pays them?