Have we ever been in a worse car buying era I don't know where to turn next.

born_again

subjecttocontract said:

Half the vehicles on the road are commercials & quasi commercial vehicles that need more range than EV technology can currently offer.

Check out Electric Trucker on U-Tube. Drives big arctics.  Range is not a issue. As driving time is a bigger issue. He charges while on his mandatory breaks & over night. Often spends week away. He has no issues 🤷‍♀️

born_again

Hoenir said:

Let's be factually correct. Governments spend taxpayers money. Borrowed money needs to be repaid along with the interest in servicing the debt. Will EV users feel inclined to put their hands in their pockets to fund this. In order that recharging on the move across the entire country becomes far easier. 

Inherent danger is that as the global demand for copper increases. So will it's price. Electrification is going to face many challenges along the way. 

Government has nothing to do with charging facilities. More than enough to travel around the country already. 

Baldytyke88

Goudy said:

That might not be too far fetched.
I can see fossil fuels becoming obsolete, either banned or there just being no profit in production and synthetic fuels being the (expensive) alternative.

Aeroplanes, JCBs, lawnmowers,diesel heaters etc. there will be loads of products still using petrol/diesel for many years to come.

Baldytyke88

born_again said:

Government has nothing to do with charging facilities. More than enough to travel around the country already. 

What about a day when the sun comes out and there are tailbacks of vehicles going to the coast, where will they be charged?

Keep_pedalling

Baldytyke88 said:

born_again said:

Government has nothing to do with charging facilities. More than enough to travel around the country already. 

What about a day when the sun comes out and there are tailbacks of vehicles going to the coast, where will they be charged?

A day trip to the coast requires no more charging if you get stuck in traffic or if you don’t, you may even use less battery capacity when slowed down by heavy traffic. 

subjecttocontract

The World seems to be made up of one group, a minority and the Government who think electric vehicles are great, everyone should have them, they're easy, no problems with charging or range or anything else and a second much larger group who can't afford them, can't charge them at home, are sceptical about infrastructure to support them and if you're a dealer can't sell enough of them.

I know which group I'm in !

RogerPensionGuy

EVs are not a panacea fix, they are okay if not too heavy, do much milage to get payback and not charged via diesel generators like currently done at many bus stations.

EV tailpipe emissions are good, tyre rubber emissions can be bad and help make more pot holes. 

The old saying remains pretty strong, the most environmentally friendly car for most people is their well maintained ICE car. 

Cars have become a big fashion item and plenty financial companies only too happy to help us keep buying new, 67% of current new EVs list price is over 40K, it's just crazy. 

WellKnownSid

RogerPensionGuy said:

EVs are not a panacea fix, they are okay if not too heavy, do much milage to get payback and not charged via diesel generators like currently done at many bus stations.

I Googled it and apparently it was a bus station in Harrogate which needed to be run off a generator for six weeks mid-year whilst the grid connection was finalised.  Each of the 20 buses apparently saves enough carbon in one year to run a car 167,000 miles - so six weeks on a generator doesn't sound too bad in that case.

As for weight, the Dacia Spring EV is 951kg.  A Ford Puma mild hybrid - the UK's most popular car - is a pot-hole curdling 1280kg.

WellKnownSid

subjecttocontract said:

The World seems to be made up of one group, a minority and the Government who think electric vehicles are great, everyone should have them, they're easy, no problems with charging or range or anything else and a second much larger group who can't afford them, can't charge them at home, are sceptical about infrastructure to support them and if you're a dealer can't sell enough of them.

I know which group I'm in !

If you cannot charge at home/work, then living with an EV is a totally different proposition.

The maths for home charging is a bit insane at the moment - I actually save more per month by having a generous home EV-only tariff (6.7p/kWh overnight every night for the whole house) than it costs me to buy and 'fuel' and maintain a nearly-new electric vehicle.  In essence it's a free car and then some.

Charging when away from home is then a very minor problem - the sat-nav shows exactly where all the vacant chargers are in real time so there is still a small amount of thought required, or I can plan it ahead and choose on price.  Because I charge at home 98% of the time and never have to visit a filling station it becomes only a small overhead.  We've driven up and down the country a few times now and never had to wait for a free charger - and the car is always pings me to say she's ready before we've finished our coffee and cake.  Yes, lots of people like to press on when they have to drive 400 miles but I personally always like a break after a few hours on the road.

"Can't afford" is true for new cars which is why we went the route of an 11 month old EV with 3,000 miles on the clock which was 60% cheaper than new.  It was also about 30% cheaper than a three year old / 30,000 mile lower spec petrol equivalent - vs stuff like getting heated leather seats and steering wheel in ours.  I can never understand the logic of headlines saying "EVs are too expensive" alongside headlines of "EVs depreciate too much".  Both cannot be true given that the majority of the motoring public will buy second hand anyway.

letom

WellKnownSid said:

subjecttocontract said:

The World seems to be made up of one group, a minority and the Government who think electric vehicles are great, everyone should have them, they're easy, no problems with charging or range or anything else and a second much larger group who can't afford them, can't charge them at home, are sceptical about infrastructure to support them and if you're a dealer can't sell enough of them.

I know which group I'm in !

If you cannot charge at home/work, then living with an EV is a totally different proposition.

The maths for home charging is a bit insane at the moment - I actually save more per month by having a generous home EV-only tariff (6.7p/kWh overnight every night for the whole house) than it costs me to buy and 'fuel' and maintain a nearly-new electric vehicle.  In essence it's a free car and then some.

Charging when away from home is then a very minor problem - the sat-nav shows exactly where all the vacant chargers are in real time so there is still a small amount of thought required, or I can plan it ahead and choose on price.  Because I charge at home 98% of the time and never have to visit a filling station it becomes only a small overhead.  We've driven up and down the country a few times now and never had to wait for a free charger - and the car is always pings me to say she's ready before we've finished our coffee and cake.  Yes, lots of people like to press on when they have to drive 400 miles but I personally always like a break after a few hours on the road.

"Can't afford" is true for new cars which is why we went the route of an 11 month old EV with 3,000 miles on the clock which was 60% cheaper than new.  It was also about 30% cheaper than a three year old / 30,000 mile lower spec petrol equivalent - vs stuff like getting heated leather seats and steering wheel in ours.  I can never understand the logic of headlines saying "EVs are too expensive" alongside headlines of "EVs depreciate too much".  Both cannot be true given that the majority of the motoring public will buy second hand anyway.

This is a very common point raised to counter the range issue, in reality it just shows the issue of EVs ie they are fundamentally an inferior product to ICE engines, which makes sense, the government didn't need to offer incentives to move consumers to big touch screen phones or away from desktops to laptops, the products were better so consumers naturally moved. It's logical, if the (EV) product was better you wouldn't need to tax the alternative (ICE) to make it more expensive.

Ultimately we are being pushed towards an inferior product, it's best to just be honest about this, the choice is whether you take the plunge now or later. Yes you have a cake and coffee and this is enough time to charge your car, however let me rephrase it. You have no choice whether you have cake, coffee, pilates, gym, nap, stare at the car wheel for 40 mins, you are immobile for X minutes. Let's just be honest with ourselves and not pretend like having no choice but to wait for a car to charge is somehow on par with being able to refuel for 500 miles with a 5 min stop