PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

tifo

born_again said:

tifo said:

I received the assessment report at the weekend after 2 weeks and it's disappointing reading.

Whilst the assessor has stated most of what I said, not all, in most of the activities she's used the fact that I have a driving license as a reason that I can do that activity, this is stated in bathing, therapy, dressing, toilet use, going on a journey. It states that because I have adequate vision and limb movement to move I should be able to carry out the activity reliably. So because I can drive I can bathe without aid or help, can put eye drops without help, can dress without help, can go to to the toilet without help and can go on any journey I like anywhere without help.

And because I can walk for shopping for 30 mins without stopping I can walk anywhere for more than 200 metres.

And because my partner accompanies me to hospital visits then I should be able to engage with people without any problems.

What i've said above is all in the report.

By that logic when i can't drive then i should not be able to carry out that activity?

She wrote in the notes about my anxiety and OCD but has totally ignored these for the descriptors, i think citing later that they're not diagnosed even though we discussed them in detail in the assessment.

She's only cited 1 hospital letter as evidence and none of the photos, and then the GP record and my previous PIP report from 2021 and the current PIP form.

What does VB, MOD and OPD mean? They're not in the 'abbreviations used' section but are used a lot (I know what they are now).

From the report I can now see that the decision has quoted some word for word statements and I can believe this as it seems there was not much of a decision made by the case manager, he's just quoted from the report. It was all so quick, assessment report sent to DWP an hour after and decision sent out to me the next day.

Do you use any aids in these activities? If so, were they listed?

Do you drive on your own?
Do you need help going on a journey? Is this documented?

TBH. if you can walk round a supermarket, for 30 mins then in reality, you can walk 200 metres

Hospital one is really wrong, as it should not include anyone helping you. But we get that with Mrs PIP.

All in all, I agree with other posts, that you need a long hard look at your claim. How you are filling it in & answering the questions.

I drive when I can, this is what I said in the assessment and is true. My mileage per year is around 5,000 or less so it's much less than the 'average' in a year (10k - 12k miles). My driving mileage can be proven from MOTs for the cars I've had. For example, in 2022/2023 when I had more severe issues I drove 5,500 miles in a year and half (brand new car).

The only aid I would think of for bathing is a stool to sit down which a poster here suggested.

The assessor looked at the previous report from 2021 and in that I got 2 points for needing help with putting eye drops in but she's not given these in this report.

"Hospital one is really wrong, as it should not include anyone helping you".

It says in the section for mixing with people that since I'm ok going to hospital (and my partner goes with me) I'm ok mixing with people. But I don't mix with people at hospital as sit and see the clinician and come back home but have to go to appointments. She's ignored everything I said about anxiety and OCD etc.

"if you can walk round a supermarket, for 30 mins then in reality, you can walk 200 metres".

I didn't say that, the assessor said it, same as in the previous report so seems a standard statement.

I said I go to shops 4-5 times a week when I can it doesn't mean 30 mins in a supermarket, I could pop into my local grocers for 5 mins which is usual. Supermarkets don't sell every grocery item we buy. Again I don't know how to explain again here or the assessment that this is only when I can and not all the time.

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

peteuk said:

tifo said:

I received the assessment report at the weekend after 2 weeks and it's disappointing reading.

Whilst the assessor has stated most of what I said, not all, in most of the activities she's used the fact that I have a driving license as a reason that I can do that activity, this is stated in bathing, therapy, dressing, toilet use, going on a journey. It states that because I have adequate vision and limb movement to move I should be able to carry out the activity reliably. So because I can drive I can bathe without aid or help, can put eye drops without help, can dress without help, can go to to the toilet without help and can go on any journey I like anywhere without help.

And because I can walk for shopping for 30 mins without stopping I can walk anywhere for more than 200 metres.

And because my partner accompanies me to hospital visits then I should be able to engage with people without any problems.

What i've said above is all in the report.

By that logic when i can't drive then i should not be able to carry out that activity?

She wrote in the notes about my anxiety and OCD but has totally ignored these for the descriptors, i think citing later that they're not diagnosed even though we discussed them in detail in the assessment.

She's only cited 1 hospital letter as evidence and none of the photos, and then the GP record and my previous PIP report from 2021 and the current PIP form.

What does VB, MOD and OPD mean? They're not in the 'abbreviations used' section but are used a lot (I know what they are now).

From the report I can now see that the decision has quoted some word for word statements and I can believe this as it seems there was not much of a decision made by the case manager, he's just quoted from the report. It was all so quick, assessment report sent to DWP an hour after and decision sent out to me the next day.

So it’s already been stated that the fact you drive shows you have a good range of movement and strength in your ankles and knees.   Your poor eyesight isn’t enough for a professional to either advise you hand back your licence or direct you to do so.

Certain activities are are assessed on certain types of conditions, so yes the fact you can drive will be used in more than one way.. the assessor takes the path of lease resistance, so if theirs more evidence to say you can than says you cant, it’s easier to write a report saying you can.

Personally as I have said before you currently dont pass the high bar to claim PIP, thats not to say you dont have the conditions, just right now they dont affect your life enough to claim.   

"Certain activities are are assessed on certain types of conditions, so yes the fact you can drive will be used in more than one way".

I understand that but like I said, driving seems to be used as a reason for giving 0 points on activities which, to me, are unrelated to driving, such as bathing or going to the toilet or putting eye drops in. Thus here I genuinely don't understand how some people get points on daily PIP activities and some even enough on mobility to get a motability car for which they need to drive.

Context might be important to understanding their reasoning along with any other justifications for descriptor choice - such as any lack of aids or assistance plus the movement required to sit in and drive a car as compared to in performing activities like washing. But you need to move on. You need to understand what points you should get if a PIP assessment was correct... and take things from there in terms of deciding how you proceed. It strikes me you are failing to qualify for PIP because either you shouldn't qualify or you have no idea why you should. I could sit here and state exactly the descriptors I should trigger in a PIP assessment/decision.. and in a couple of sentences briefly describe why for each scoring descriptor... you should be able to do the same by now... and if you can't them aim to do so and add up the points and then you have your basis for claim or basis to forget about PIP.

And of course seek support for your mental health problem raised in assessment.

In terms of motability.. I would take a punt that the majority of those getting enhanced mobility meaning they can get onto that scheme have significant physical barriers to mobilisation... not all of course... some can qualify through cognitive/mental issues too... and I spend time with a fellow advanced cancer patient who walks 6 miles a day now (more than he ever has typically before in life) with terminal cancer and gets enhanced mobility and his motability vehicle (I assume he got some blooming good help from MacMillan!)

tifo

I can scan and post extracts from the report if it helps understanding the decision?

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

I can scan and post extracts from the report if it helps understanding the decision?

I don't see much value.... it might  just waste more of your time I think unless you think there are flaws in the assessment that could repeat with a different assessor and they are materially important. It's pointless us banging around the same issues if it is merely an academic exercise that neither determines your disablements relevant or ability to qualify for PIP. We could waste everyone's time debating technical points or opinions over activities you yourself don't think you have disablement regarding. You need to focus on what is now relevant and important... there's 12 activities and only 1 descriptor in each activity can be applied... assess yourself and take it from there.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vms0u05139aw/pip_descriptors.pdf/93820be60dcc6420191292ed56e2c95f/pip_descriptors.pdf

CosmoChic

I've helped quite a few people (re-)apply for PIP over the past few years. 

The starting point is a) knowing which descriptors apply to that person, and b) to what degree i.e. what points they should reasonably expect to be awarded.

The OP has consistently failed to identify this basic information for readers,  This allows me to consider the OP doesn't know either the intent of the descriptors or, indeed, where within those descriptors they would reasonably expect to be awarded.

Having read the entire thread, it appears to have been an exercise in p*ssing against the wind for the posters kind enough to have offered guidance/advice.

Soooooo frustrating.  

peteuk

tifo said: 

"Certain activities are are assessed on certain types of conditions, so yes the fact you can drive will be used in more than one way".

I understand that but like I said, driving seems to be used as a reason for giving 0 points on activities which, to me, are unrelated to driving, such as bathing or going to the toilet or putting eye drops in. Thus here I genuinely don't understand how some people get points on daily PIP activities and some even enough on mobility to get a motability car for which they need to drive.

Its not the fact that the activities are related its the movement and strength required to undertake the activity.  

So driving to a known destination says you have the cognative capacity to remember routes and act/responsed to any hazards or diversions in place.  Driving a manual car, suggests you have strength and range of movement in your ankles, knees wrists and grip in both hands to operate the pedals, gear stick and steering wheel.   It also means you have vision over 25 meters.

If this was not so you would be advised to surrender your driving licence, doing it volunterally does not count.   Or if advised by a medical professional to change to an automatic because of X (eg loss of power, movement left ankle, foot) then it would be different,

By saying you have full/good range of movement, it is implied that you can therefore stand when well.  As you have then noted your difficulties are not the majority of the time so therefore as mentioned before it’s easier for the assessor to write a supporting statement for 0 points than it is for a scoring descriptor.  

People get PIP because the reach the high threshold to obtain points.   But an in-depth understanding of the activities and descriptors are required.  SO for instance cooking a meal.   The activity is preparing and cooking a simple meal for one on a hob.   So dont mention bending to get to the oven, in your case cant see (cause your driving so can see 25M) ect ect.   Microwave is used for safety eg uncontrolled epilepsy where no warnings are noted.   if you choose to use a microwave with no condition to support it then it would be discarded as evidence. 

Mental health does come into it, but youd need to evidence this eg Ive set fire to 4 pans in the last month because….

tifo

peteuk said:

tifo said: 

"Certain activities are are assessed on certain types of conditions, so yes the fact you can drive will be used in more than one way".

I understand that but like I said, driving seems to be used as a reason for giving 0 points on activities which, to me, are unrelated to driving, such as bathing or going to the toilet or putting eye drops in. Thus here I genuinely don't understand how some people get points on daily PIP activities and some even enough on mobility to get a motability car for which they need to drive.

Its not the fact that the activities are related its the movement and strength required to undertake the activity.  

So driving to a known destination says you have the cognative capacity to remember routes and act/responsed to any hazards or diversions in place.  Driving a manual car, suggests you have strength and range of movement in your ankles, knees wrists and grip in both hands to operate the pedals, gear stick and steering wheel.   It also means you have vision over 25 meters.

If this was not so you would be advised to surrender your driving licence, doing it volunterally does not count.   Or if advised by a medical professional to change to an automatic because of X (eg loss of power, movement left ankle, foot) then it would be different,

By saying you have full/good range of movement, it is implied that you can therefore stand when well.  As you have then noted your difficulties are not the majority of the time so therefore as mentioned before it’s easier for the assessor to write a supporting statement for 0 points than it is for a scoring descriptor.  

People get PIP because the reach the high threshold to obtain points.   But an in-depth understanding of the activities and descriptors are required.  SO for instance cooking a meal.   The activity is preparing and cooking a simple meal for one on a hob.   So dont mention bending to get to the oven, in your case cant see (cause your driving so can see 25M) ect ect.   Microwave is used for safety eg uncontrolled epilepsy where no warnings are noted.   if you choose to use a microwave with no condition to support it then it would be discarded as evidence. 

Mental health does come into it, but youd need to evidence this eg Ive set fire to 4 pans in the last month because….

There's too much put into being able to drive at the assessment.

I've pointed this out but similarly when i can't drive because of my gout, or knee pain, or i'm anxious that i don't want to go out (this happens very often, i stay at home) then by the same thinking i should not be able to carry out those other activities reliably?

" As you have then noted your difficulties are not the majority of the time".

I don't say this, it's advantageous for PIP assessors that each condition has to be for the majority of the time not combined (I came across in my previous claim in 2021 and was told this) and they will always say it's for the minority. Again referring to the previous PIP claim, because the assessor has looked at it for this claim, they twisted the majority to minority and declined. At the PIP/WCA tribunal (can't remember which one) i was told that i'm a few percentages short of a majority (they calculated percentage)!

"Mental health does come into it, but youd need to evidence this eg Ive set fire to 4 pans in the last month because".

It's clear to me that my depression diagnosis should have included anxiety (MADD) and i'll talk to my GP about it as well as my OCD. I've not brought it up in the past but i'm more anxious than i'm depressed. I'll probably get asked on here "why not?" but I realise when people have mental health issues it's not always clear to them that they should be assessed for it, they just carry on with life as best as they can, like i have with my anxiety and OCD. This OCD is not something i mention to people i know (my family knows anyway) but it's just something i do.

tifo

CosmoChic said:

I've helped quite a few people (re-)apply for PIP over the past few years. 

The starting point is a) knowing which descriptors apply to that person, and b) to what degree i.e. what points they should reasonably expect to be awarded.

The OP has consistently failed to identify this basic information for readers,  This allows me to consider the OP doesn't know either the intent of the descriptors or, indeed, where within those descriptors they would reasonably expect to be awarded.

"a) knowing which descriptors apply to that person, and b) to what degree i.e. what points they should reasonably expect to be awarded".

I'll do this and post on here.

I did this for the MR and tribunal in my previous PIP claim in 2021. Made the mistake of giving them too much information, some of which was probably not relevant, and it went against me because the tribunal judge (who said she doesn't believe anything i said anyway) commented that if i've done the bundle myself then there's nothing wrong with me.

This time i'm getting Shelter to help me (i've said this before) for the MR and, if needed, tribunal. They're the local welfare advice agency and CAB and many other point me to them.

peteuk

My advice would be simple - take each activity description write it on a piece of paper and then state why you cant do that activity due to each condition you have.   Some you may say it doesnt cause an issue.  Eg Gout and finances.  Some you may have mulitple issues caused by each condition.  Make them factual and real life examples eg Cooked soup took me 20 minutes because I had to sit down 4 times.   Cooked soup but due to OCD had to…. 

Then when you go through the MR/Appeal or your next application you base your answers of the evidence gathered, rather than this week is ok, next week it hurts, week after really hurts - last for about two weeks and then settles, next episode is a month later.   Unless youve a dairy of how your conditions are 

tifo

When i asked for a recording of the assessment maximus raised it as a complaint, i said to them it's not a complaint as i only want the recording, they didn't have it anyway, but they then asked if i have any other issues i wish to raise within the complaint to which i replied "i'll wait for a copy of the report and see".  They said "ok, let us know by {date}".

When i received the report i replied to them saying i'm not happy that the assessor noted my anxiety and OCD (on which we spent 20 mins or so) in the report but has not applied these to any of the descriptors, that i'm not happy about how being able to drive has been used for unconnected activities such as bathing (we spent 10 mins or so on this) and going to the toilet and being able to put eye drops in and that there are big jumps in assumptions where the assessor has downplayed how i engage with people in that, because my partner accompanies me to hospital appts i can engage with people and that, because my anxiety and OCD has been ignored, it's not helped me in any descriptor.

They said "we'll investigate and get back to you" but i'm not expecting any change because the DWP decision is made.