PIP was 2nd claim with new conditions but from 15 April 2025 new 3rd claim as advised.

tifo

i've asked maximus for the assessment recording or transcript ….

poppy12345

tifo said:

i've asked maximus for the assessment recording or transcript ….

There will only be a recording if you asked for them to do that. They are not automatically recorded. 

peteuk

tifo said:

M25 said:

tifo said:

Received my PIP letter, got 0 points on everything whereas previously i got 2 points for 'managing therapy' (i can't put my eye drops in as blind eye).

That's unfortunate. See how you get on with the MR.

Did you have someone check through your application? I'd recommend someone you know well (get them to read the easy read PIP leaflet) and maybe a help centre. The descriptors are very important obviously but if you can get a couple of opinions that may help you understand how you manage your needs.

I did go to Shelter workshop at the beginning, they're my local advice agency and they didn't check the form but kind of guided how to fill it in. I did this because, as advised, i don't come across as well as i should, which is not deliberate and i've been told i waffle a bit.

Shelter will help with the MR and i've made an appointment for mid April which is over 30 days of the date of the decision letter (still within 30 days of my receiving it though as i got it 8 days later). I asked the advisor about this and she said I have 13 months to do it. I enquired "are you sure because i think it's 13 months for the tribunal not the MR" and she replied "i'm the benefit advisor, do you want my help or not" which i thought wasn't the right thing to say.

Ideally it should be within 30 days of receiving your notification however you are given a further 13 months to make an MR.  This does need to be explainied in your request - eg I was waiting for assistance.   Im not 100% sure Shleter is the correct way forward for you/this.  Have you tried Citizens Advice? 

Muttleythefrog

Regarding Shelter and their help with MR... I would consider raising your OCD dilemma and how/whether this should feature in your reconsideration.... and use that issue as a litmus test of whether they are technically competent to handle this.

M25

tifo said:

i've been told i waffle a bit.

Yes, we've all been saying that for months. You need to focus. Lack of focus is destructive for your claim.

Unless you can't write or read I don't see much point in going to Shelter. You do sound like you could manage with a little help from here and some preparation.

A MR (or PIP application) is a simple enough formula (eg point out why the assessment was not correct, compare the descriptors to your daily living etc).

Although we can't see your paperwork I'm sure people can guide you along if you need that help.

I think you've had good advice on this thread but you have entirely ignored it so maybe you do need to sit down with someone. You could ask specific questions in this thread although I'm not sure what the rules are about that.

I used to work in the CAB and people brought in partly completed DLA forms and I'd say 90% of them were for the bin. I've always found (and I've done 100s) forms write themselves if you've done the preparation.

Whatever you do with the next PIP application (and I think your MR will fail from what you've said) you must jettison everything previously and start afresh with the OCD. 

That is not general advice but really targeted at you.

You will find a load of stuff online (look at YouTube too) about OCD and you can compare how bad you are to those people and try and get those answers down on paper ready to fill in the PIP form with an eye on the descriptors (how you manage the routines/mental health effects/coping with people and situations/opening letters/handling goods outside/effects are all consuming etc). And do a dry run/draft with the PIP form so you can study it for a few days before filling it in proper.

We can't really look at your form I don't think (I suppose you could remove personal details) but if the rules allow it you have nothing to lose posting sections of it.

There's far more help online or here than you could get at a help centre if you can access and focus the help of course.

Do your homework on OCD and how it affects you and write it out very clearly and then even if you can't do the PIP form you can take it to Shelter (it would help them massively if you've done that work) and they can complete the form.

tifo

M25 said:

tifo said:

i've been told i waffle a bit.

Yes, we've all been saying that for months. You need to focus. Lack of focus is destructive for your claim.

Unless you can't write or read I don't see much point in going to Shelter. You do sound like you could manage with a little help from here and some preparation.

A MR (or PIP application) is a simple enough formula (eg point out why the assessment was not correct, compare the descriptors to your daily living etc).

Although we can't see your paperwork I'm sure people can guide you along if you need that help.

I think you've had good advice on this thread but you have entirely ignored it so maybe you do need to sit down with someone. You could ask specific questions in this thread although I'm not sure what the rules are about that.

I used to work in the CAB and people brought in partly completed DLA forms and I'd say 90% of them were for the bin. I've always found (and I've done 100s) forms write themselves if you've done the preparation.

Whatever you do with the next PIP application (and I think your MR will fail from what you've said) you must jettison everything previously and start afresh with the OCD. 

That is not general advice but really targeted at you.

You will find a load of stuff online (look at YouTube too) about OCD and you can compare how bad you are to those people and try and get those answers down on paper ready to fill in the PIP form with an eye on the descriptors (how you manage the routines/mental health effects/coping with people and situations/opening letters/handling goods outside/effects are all consuming etc). And do a dry run/draft with the PIP form so you can study it for a few days before filling it in proper.

We can't really look at your form I don't think (I suppose you could remove personal details) but if the rules allow it you have nothing to lose posting sections of it.

There's far more help online or here than you could get at a help centre if you can access and focus the help of course.

Do your homework on OCD and how it affects you and write it out very clearly and then even if you can't do the PIP form you can take it to Shelter (it would help them massively if you've done that work) and they can complete the form.

Shelter are the local advice agency (debt, welfare etc) and CAB and everyone else will direct me towards them because Shelter receive the funding for my area. I tried getting help from everywhere last time and was always directed to Shelter.

I think i've demonstrated here that i can read and write .... this went against me in my previous PIP claim as the tribunal panel commented that i was able to write the submission bundle myself, all 127 pages of it, so i've obviously no issues. I think maybe i wrote and gave too much.

I haven't ignored the advice given here, i've taken it all on board and it's always appreciated, i don't mind criticism which can be negative or positive.

Are you saying i should now make a 3rd PIP claim based on new condition(s)? That may not look good as it will seem i keep trying. I understand what you say about OCD and even if it wasn't in the form it is part of my assessment so should be considered, when i receive the assessment report i'll see the notes but seems the assessor ignored everything i've said about my problems and just ticked the 0 boxes after 1 hour 30 minutes of seeming like she was listening.

This 2nd PIP claim is nearly 4 years after my previous one (which JC asked me to do) so i'm not a chancer despite what some may say.

Muttleythefrog

tifo said:

Are you saying i should now make a 3rd PIP claim based on new condition(s)? That may not look good as it will seem i keep trying. I understand what you say about OCD and even if it wasn't in the form it is part of my assessment so should be considered, when i receive the assessment report i'll see the notes but seems the assessor ignored everything i've said about my problems and just ticked the 0 boxes after 1 hour 30 minutes of seeming like she was listening.

This 2nd PIP claim is nearly 4 years after my previous one (which JC asked me to do) so i'm not a chancer despite what some may say.

I obviously can't speak for the poster you ask the question of... but... this is one reason I think you should ask your advisor for advice on this... a litmus test of whether they're really thinking about the way forward rather than just form filling as a job... I would expect them to have a strategy if they're truly engaging... be able to explain why reconsideration rather than new claim makes sense given what happened at assessment.

You've effectively potentially sabotaged the claim you're pursuing - you've effectively declared the form you completed does not reflect your disablements and illnesses by virtue of what you said in the telephone assessment. We've advised you previously to forget past and focus on claim in front of you... unfortunately what happened in the assessment where you raised a whole new area of illness that causes disablement makes it a real possibility a new claim may make more sense than challenging a decision. There is grave inconsistency in this claim that invites the idea you are not a credible source of evidence - which is precisely the problem you've faced before. It's a reality you again have to face and it is hard to advise on best way forward and it could also include the timing of any OCD related medical help/reports/diagnosis received.

One school of thought would be to pursue reconsideration and appeal as is standard but you are not in a standard situation I would argue.
The other school of thought is you start a new claim and probably once OCD is evaluated/diagnosed/reported/treated or the like.by medical professionals you engage so you can fully document your disablements and with documentary backup.

tifo

Some extracts from the decision notes:

Mostly it's a repeat of the descriptors and then "I decided that you can manage these activities".

"You drive a car which requires a reasonable level of upper and lower limb strength, grip, range of movement and core stability as well as competent level of reading ability, memory, cognition and concentration". I said I drive when i can which is not always.

"When engaging with the assessor you coped well, was not anxious or withdrawn and did not need any prompting". I tried to answer the best i could and many times asked her to repeat the question.

"There is no evidence of any prescribed anxiolytic medication and you do not receive any specialist input for your mental health. Your functional history report shows no abandoned journeys and no panic attacks leaving the home. Your assessment showed you have no cognitive impairments and you possess adequate memory and concentration. During the assessment you coped well with adequate rapport. You communicated clearly and effectively without the need for prompting and with no signs of overwhelming psychological distress". Basically saying i'm on no anxiety medication and have no mental or memory issues. Nothing about my OCD and how i said it affects me in terms of going out (i don't most times) and especially how i am at home and in public spaces and the routines that i have to do with a lot of things.

"The functional history report shows you report being able to walk 30 minutes without stopping at a normal pace 4 or 5 times a week which is the majority of days". This is in response to shopping when in reality nobody, not even able bodied people, walk around a supermarket non stop for 30 mins, everyone pauses and stops at many stages in their shop to browse or pick up items. And many times it's not 30 minutes of non stop walking in a shop as it might be a quick 5 minutes in and out. It does not specifically state 'shopping' but i know it is because the assessor said i can walk around a supermarket for 30 minutes and it was also stated in my previous claim.

"You only take analgesia for your severe gout flare ups, you report flare ups 12 times a year and there is no evidence of any specialist input. I decided you can stand and then move more than 200 metres". Obviously i can't with severe or mild gout and i don't take medication only for a flare up, i'm on constant medication for it which helps but doesn't stop it.

There's no mention of how osteoarthritis is affecting me (stiff, painful left knees but more in the left) in terms of movement or bathing, which i mentioned i can't bend it to wash my lower legs or lift my feet to wash them. The assessor specifically asked this. The same applies to dressing/undressing. With gout movement and bathing has a different difficulty. My GP said use the same medication for osteoarthritis as for gout.

Lots of other things were asked and replied to and there's no mention here. I'll see in the assessment report when i receive it.

Spoonie_Turtle

This is in response to shopping when in reality nobody, not even able bodied people, walk around a supermarket non stop for 30 mins, everyone pauses and stops at many stages in their shop to browse or pick up items.

Just on this note - it is based on how long in total a person can walk for.  So pauses to then continue don't count as stopping, it's when they can no longer continue that is deemed to be stopping.  (I'm not with it enough to comment on any other part of it, but just so you know where they're coming from with that bit specifically.)

"You drive a car …". I said I drive when i can which is not always.

How often is 'not always'?  How often would you be able to?

"When engaging with the assessor you coped well, was not anxious or withdrawn and did not need any prompting". I tried to answer the best i could and many times asked her to repeat the question.

FWIW I have something like this in my assessment report too, even though I was really struggling to find my words and the assessor did need to prompt me with what I'd written on my form.  (The deterioration was noticeable - I'd started off okay-ish and then struggled more and more and she commented to me that she was conscious of me getting fatigued so was trying to be as quick at possible.)

born_again

Something that jumped out at me.

this went against me in my previous PIP claim as the tribunal panel commented that i was able to write the submission bundle myself, all 127 pages of it,

Maybe think of using a computer & typing anything like this up & keep it a lot shorter & to the point, as only 12 questions in the PIP form. That is 10 pages per question. Plus 7 as a overall summery. 

DWP outcome is basically the same as you have. With just the case workers notes on why they came to their decision, based on assessors report.