Tomato Energy (Electric Only Supplier) - Too Good To Be True ?

EssexHebridean

matt_drummer said:

crumpet_man said:

Money, money , money, me, me, me!

That's why the directors of Tomato Energy started the company!

That is why everybody starts a business, that is the very definition of a business, it's not a crime. No business will ever succeed if it doesn't make a profit.

Nobody needs monetary compensation for every little thing that goes wrong in life,

Soon we'll be claiming because somebody pulled out on us at a junction or somebody failed to hold a door open for us.

It's pathetic, we don't need to be paid for every little mistake that other people make.

This venture was `willed' to fail from the start.

There's no doubt that the management of this company was incompetent but I have no faith that any genuine competent people would stand much chance of success either.

And that is because too many people are out for what they can get for themselves.

Matt your accusations that it was people requesting compensation they were rightfully entitled to that caused tomato’s downfall are out of line IMO, and your direct attack on another poster for this even more so.  My general assumption is that the majority of the regular posters on MSE are here because we shop around for good deals and aim to get the best value for the things we have to buy. Indeed, many people have no choice but to do that, money is too tight not to. When going to an energy company we also have a right to expect that company will meet certain standards - and if they fail to meet those standards, they face penalties which are clearly set out and stated by the regulator, or on occasion which may be decided by the Ombudsman serve. We know this, and Tomato also knew this. 

The whole issue with Tomato from the very start was that an awful lot of us felt that they did not have a sustainable business model - they simply seemed to be promising things they couldn’t deliver. Subsequently they also seemed to be behaving (trading) in an unethical way - that was certainly a reason why I (and others) decided against becoming customers. Others chose to give them a go - but they were never a charity and accordingly there was no need to accept them making really quite substantial failings, in some cases - where compensation was due then it was absolutely fair and reasonable for people to expect that it was paid. 

masonic

It's worth also remembering that outgoing suppliers were forced to pay compensation to customers switching to Tomato purely because Tomato couldn't process the industry flows required to validate the opening meter readings of those customers. In many cases that happened automatically without the customer even asking, which is the intention of the legislation. That is one aspect of the standards of performance legislation that is unfair. The new supplier ought to be able to reclaim this compensation from the new supplier when the final bill cannot be issued due to the new supplier failing to comply with its obligations.

These outgoing suppliers had to pay this compensation, whereas many who are owed compensation by Tomato will not receive it, including the poster quoted in the earlier post.

matt_drummer

EssexHebridean said:

matt_drummer said:

crumpet_man said:

Money, money , money, me, me, me!

That's why the directors of Tomato Energy started the company!

That is why everybody starts a business, that is the very definition of a business, it's not a crime. No business will ever succeed if it doesn't make a profit.

Nobody needs monetary compensation for every little thing that goes wrong in life,

Soon we'll be claiming because somebody pulled out on us at a junction or somebody failed to hold a door open for us.

It's pathetic, we don't need to be paid for every little mistake that other people make.

This venture was `willed' to fail from the start.

There's no doubt that the management of this company was incompetent but I have no faith that any genuine competent people would stand much chance of success either.

And that is because too many people are out for what they can get for themselves.

Matt your accusations that it was people requesting compensation they were rightfully entitled to that caused tomato’s downfall are out of line IMO, and your direct attack on another poster for this even more so.  My general assumption is that the majority of the regular posters on MSE are here because we shop around for good deals and aim to get the best value for the things we have to buy. Indeed, many people have no choice but to do that, money is too tight not to. When going to an energy company we also have a right to expect that company will meet certain standards - and if they fail to meet those standards, they face penalties which are clearly set out and stated by the regulator, or on occasion which may be decided by the Ombudsman serve. We know this, and Tomato also knew this. 

The whole issue with Tomato from the very start was that an awful lot of us felt that they did not have a sustainable business model - they simply seemed to be promising things they couldn’t deliver. Subsequently they also seemed to be behaving (trading) in an unethical way - that was certainly a reason why I (and others) decided against becoming customers. Others chose to give them a go - but they were never a charity and accordingly there was no need to accept them making really quite substantial failings, in some cases - where compensation was due then it was absolutely fair and reasonable for people to expect that it was paid. 

Paying compensation to people who you haven't even made any money from did contribute to the downfall, it is a contributory factor. I said it contributed and never said it was the cause.

People are `rightfully' due the compensation payments because the regulator says so.

That doesn't make them rightful or justified in my opinion, and that is all it is.

I haven't attacked anybody and I have removed the name now just to make sure, I quoted a post from a forum member demonstrating the compensation payments that they were legally entitled to, in that case £80 for not getting a final bill on time. I do remember that forum user at the time hoping their final bill would be late so that they would get their compensation! I am sure they even said that they wouldn't be reminding them to increase the chances of the bill being late. The final bill being late didn't concern them, getting £80 of free money did.

Where's all this compensation coming from in the end?

Ultimately the people who didn't get paid by Tomato.

And those people will will be recovering it from us one way or another. So people like me will end up paying a small part of other people's compensation payments.

I will also be paying my small share for the unsustainably cheap energy that Tomato's customers enjoyed.

So what I see is people joining an energy company that they didn't expect to last, milking it for all they could get safe in the knowledge that it's all totally risk free. A good chance of free money from compensation for poor service, you might not get billed and have to pay for your electricity, and the worst that can happen is that you go on a standard electricity tariff for a while. Your money is safe and the debts created by your supplier on your behalf will be covered by the rest of us.

It shouldn't be allowed to happen

masonic

The legislation was passed by Parliament with the intention of preventing the situation where customers are billed months after they left an energy supplier. The compensation is £40 for failing to bill within 6 weeks of the customer leaving. The other £40 is for failing to comply with this within 10 working days.

The measure was effective in Tomato's case, because from around September, all reports from those leaving indicated that they received a correct final bill well within the 6 week timeframe. In some cases much more quickly.

Newbie_John

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Newbie_John said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

matt_drummer said:

Going from memory. the first few pages of this thread shows they were expected to fail, even the title suggests it!

Because of the unbelievably low rates they were offering.  That's all it was.  People were interested to see whether a company could succeed offering what appeared to be unsustainably low rates.

Unbelievably? So energy, good energy, UW.. rates under 7p are very common. Are they all too good to be true? 😉

Compare their other rates on those tariffs, with what Tomato was offering.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Newbie_John said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

matt_drummer said:

Going from memory. the first few pages of this thread shows they were expected to fail, even the title suggests it!

Because of the unbelievably low rates they were offering.  That's all it was.  People were interested to see whether a company could succeed offering what appeared to be unsustainably low rates.

Unbelievably? So energy, good energy, UW.. rates under 7p are very common. Are they all too good to be true? 😉

Compare their other rates on those tariffs, with what Tomato was offering.

Good Energy EV - 6.5p 0-5am Vs 5p with TE.
29p other periods Vs 25p.

Sure there also were 13p periods (which good energy has on their Heat Pump tarrif).

But from point of view of someone who charges battery at that time and use that during the day - it's almost the same price - and in August 2024 electricity was cheaper than now

Their prices werent really that unusual, yes they were the cheapest but not by much.

My main reason to join TE was they didn't require EV, HeatPump etc. - which is the case with Good Energy now

crumpet_man

Newbie_John said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Newbie_John said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

matt_drummer said:

Going from memory. the first few pages of this thread shows they were expected to fail, even the title suggests it!

Because of the unbelievably low rates they were offering.  That's all it was.  People were interested to see whether a company could succeed offering what appeared to be unsustainably low rates.

Unbelievably? So energy, good energy, UW.. rates under 7p are very common. Are they all too good to be true? 😉

Compare their other rates on those tariffs, with what Tomato was offering.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Newbie_John said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

matt_drummer said:

Going from memory. the first few pages of this thread shows they were expected to fail, even the title suggests it!

Because of the unbelievably low rates they were offering.  That's all it was.  People were interested to see whether a company could succeed offering what appeared to be unsustainably low rates.

Unbelievably? So energy, good energy, UW.. rates under 7p are very common. Are they all too good to be true? 😉

Compare their other rates on those tariffs, with what Tomato was offering.

Good Energy EV - 6.5p 0-5am Vs 5p with TE.
29p other periods Vs 25p.

Sure there also were 13p periods (which good energy has on their Heat Pump tarrif).

But from point of view of someone who charges battery at that time and use that during the day - it's almost the same price - and in August 2024 electricity was cheaper than now

Their prices werent really that unusual, yes they were the cheapest but not by much.

My main reason to join TE was they didn't require EV, HeatPump etc. - which is the case with Good Energy now

Tomato pricing was such that anyone on a price cap tariff could save money on the EV tariff.  The peak was still cheaper than the price cap, the standing charge was low too. 

Comparing to Good Energy EV, TE had six hours at 5p instead of five hours at 6.5p with no real downside as you get another 4 hours at ~15p and the rest at 25p.  I would say that is quite a bit cheaper.

solarite

JohnPo said:

Bit of progress with the SOLR, it appears an online electricity account has been setup at BG with details that come from Tomato. I simply put my email address into the BG login it invited me to do a password reset and details of start date of 18/11 with 'welcome tomato energy' tariff listed.  I would suggest for those folk who had switched and were worried that BG might try and sweep you up in SOLR, then it might we worth trying to see if an online account has been set up with BG.

I was also able to log in and now have a account number. Start date for my new tariff is also 18th although they did become my supplier on the 9th, so what happens in between? Mywatts is still giving accurate readings. Will we still get the Tomato rates until 17th? I also wonder if is possible to switch now that I have an account number?

masonic

solarite said:

JohnPo said:

Bit of progress with the SOLR, it appears an online electricity account has been setup at BG with details that come from Tomato. I simply put my email address into the BG login it invited me to do a password reset and details of start date of 18/11 with 'welcome tomato energy' tariff listed.  I would suggest for those folk who had switched and were worried that BG might try and sweep you up in SOLR, then it might we worth trying to see if an online account has been set up with BG.

I was also able to log in and now have a account number. Start date for my new tariff is also 18th although they did become my supplier on the 9th, so what happens in between? Mywatts is still giving accurate readings. Will we still get the Tomato rates until 17th? I also wonder if is possible to switch now that I have an account number?

The Tomato administrators will only be able to bill to the start of 9th November when BG's appointment as SOLR became effective. BG will bill from that date. It's uncharted territory as to how this will work with TOU tariffs. Normally the customer provides a meter reading and both suppliers use it (or a deemed reading), but Tomato has famously misunderstood the role of meter readings in energy supply. The most sensible thing for them to do is take the opening Tomato reading and add on all consumption billed to the 9th November to ensure a consistent change of supply reading.

You won't be able to initiate a switch until BG is shown as your supplier by your distributor (or National Grid). This probably hasn't happened yet, and perhaps that's the 18th in your case.

JohnPo

solarite said:

JohnPo said:

Bit of progress with the SOLR, it appears an online electricity account has been setup at BG with details that come from Tomato. I simply put my email address into the BG login it invited me to do a password reset and details of start date of 18/11 with 'welcome tomato energy' tariff listed.  I would suggest for those folk who had switched and were worried that BG might try and sweep you up in SOLR, then it might we worth trying to see if an online account has been set up with BG.

I was also able to log in and now have a account number. Start date for my new tariff is also 18th although they did become my supplier on the 9th, so what happens in between? Mywatts is still giving accurate readings. Will we still get the Tomato rates until 17th? I also wonder if is possible to switch now that I have an account number?

I think it is probably safe to assume that we will be paying the price cap BG tariff from 9th Nov.  At some point BG are going to ask for an opening 'meter read' which will be fun as mine was previously set up with a cumulative register plus a day and night register (original Octopus Go config).  I will then hazard a guess they will work back to an estimated figure as to what the read was on 9th Nov and provide that to the administrators of Tomato as the 'industry agreed read'. Now as the bills from Tomato never showed meter readings - how we can know that administrators have appropriately issued a correct final bill I do not know - they may just issue a bill based on their HH data till midnight on the 8th which may or may not agree with 'industry agreed read'.  Anyone who left Tomato and got final bill might care to in step in here and advise how it was done before they went into administration?

lohr500

JohnPo said:

.  Anyone who left Tomato and got final bill might care to in step in here and advise how it was done before they went into administration?

When we left TE way back in November 2024, my switch to UW Eco 7 was scheduled for 12th November.

Prior to being with TE we were on a complex two rate tariff from EDF which used two meter registers. The tariff gave an off-peak rate between 10pm and 7am week days and all day on Saturday & Sunday.

Despite moving to one of the TE Lifestyle tariffs, our meter continued to operate as if it was still on the EDF tariff, switching between registers in line with the old EDF tariff. I guess this was irrelevant for TE because as we know they just used the 30 minute data to calculate their billing. 

I tmanually took the readings from both meter registers at 00:00 on the 12th November and these agreed with the smart meter readings UW used for their opening readings. That day UW also pushed the new Eco 7 timings across to the meter so the registers switched based on the new 7 hour off-peak window.

The final bill from TE used the 30 minute data for the 11th November and a correct final bill for our November 1st to 11th usage was generated. 

I was fortunate though in that from the start, TE were able to get my 30 minute usage data and they didn't brick my meter!!