Section 13 rent increase

Halabala9

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

BarelySentientAI

Halabala9 said:

propertyrental said:

Halabala9 said:

 A_Penny_Dreadful said:

Halabala9 said:

Thanks guys for all your responses, that is very helpful. 

One more question about my 30 days notice. Is it 30 days from any day I serve the notice or does it have to be full rental period?

What I mean, if the contract is on 1 month rolling from let's say 14th of every month, if I give 30 days notice on 5th, do I need to wait 5th-13th + full rental period till 14th next month or is it going to be 5th - 5th?

I hope it makes sense.

What kind of tenancy do you have? Contractual periodic tenancy or a statutory periodic tenancy? 

Statutory. It was 12 months AST, and when it ended, I stayed in, so it became 1 month rolling.

Does not answer the question. Did the original 12 month contract have a clause specifying what happens at the end, particularly regarding Notice (which could 2 months if it's a CPT, not SPT)

If it IS SPT then notice is one full tenancy period, ending on the last day of the period (usually day before your next rent payment/period)

- The Landlord must give notice of no less than two months, such notice to expire any time on or after the

final day of the Initial Term. A notice served by the Landlord under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 shall be sufficient notice under this clause.

- The Tenant must give notice of no less than one month, such notice to expire the day before a Rent Payment Day or on the final day of the Initial Term.

Not sure how to understand that. Such notice to expire the day before a Rent Payment Day? However the landlords notice "to expire anytime", so she doesn't have to wait till the rent date but I do?

Yes, sort of.  That means that the LL's notice can be given any time and for any date at least 2 months after the notice, but your notice must be to leave on the last day of a 'rent month' (so the day before you would next pay rent) although you can give it any time at least 1 month before that.

So, for your "rent on 14th" example above - you could give notice any date up until 13 September that you were leaving on 13 October.  You could give it today if you wanted, but you'd still only be allowed to leave on 13 October.

The LL could pick any date as long as it's at least 2 months away.

That's how it worked in the initial term anyway.  I don't know how that carries on into the CPT.

Jemma01

propertyrental said:

Halabala9 said:

 A_Penny_Dreadful said:

Halabala9 said:

Thanks guys for all your responses, that is very helpful. 

One more question about my 30 days notice. Is it 30 days from any day I serve the notice or does it have to be full rental period?

What I mean, if the contract is on 1 month rolling from let's say 14th of every month, if I give 30 days notice on 5th, do I need to wait 5th-13th + full rental period till 14th next month or is it going to be 5th - 5th?

I hope it makes sense.

What kind of tenancy do you have? Contractual periodic tenancy or a statutory periodic tenancy? 

Statutory. It was 12 months AST, and when it ended, I stayed in, so it became 1 month rolling.

Does not answer the question. Did the original 12 month contract have a clause specifying what happens at the end, particularly regarding Notice (which could 2 months if it's a CPT, not SPT)

If it IS SPT then notice is one full tenancy period, ending on the last day of the period (usually day before your next rent payment/period)

Intruding here... Mine is SPT and it says 2 months... Do I have a way out 😅

The Tenant(s) agrees to provide written Notice of the intention to leave the property either a minimum of  two months prior to the end of the agreed term or, should the tenancy continue on as a Statutory Periodic Tenancy, two months notice on the rent date can be given at any time by Landlord or Tenant.

Schwarzwald

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

a notice with the intention to increase rent is still a notice.
the title does not change the subject or substance.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

Whatsapp is neither of these so i would say notice has not been properly served.

Schwarzwald

Halabala9 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Does your tenancy agreement say that notices can be served via WhatsApp? I doubt it. Pointless to ask for a Section 21 notice instead as there’s nothing preventing a landlord from issuing both a Section 21 and Section 13 notice at the same time. 

It is possible that your landlord has both sent you the WhatsApp message and posted the Section 13 notice to you. Should that be the case then the “trick” you’re looking for would be to challenge the rent increase at the tribunal which may or may not go in your favour. There’s a sticky at the top of the board for Tenancies in England and Wales that includes a section about rent increases if you want more information. The sticky also includes a section about how and when tenancies can legally be ended which you may also find useful as you do not wish to get caught out by tenancy periods. 

 I don't agree with it and I'm telling the landlord that I want to leave instead, please serve me Section 21

the right thing to do IMO is:

- tell the LL that you dont consider a notice via whatsapp as being served
- ask them to serve via the means agreed in the tenancy agreement
- once received that way, say you disagree with the price increase
- leave it at that, no need to tell them you want to have a S21 served
- personally, i would start being rather unconstructive with any further viewing enquiries or so, eg surveys, etc. 

user1977

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

Halabala9

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

Does your tenancy agreement say that notices can be served via WhatsApp? I doubt it. Pointless to ask for a Section 21 notice instead as there’s nothing preventing a landlord from issuing both a Section 21 and Section 13 notice at the same time. 

It is possible that your landlord has both sent you the WhatsApp message and posted the Section 13 notice to you. Should that be the case then the “trick” you’re looking for would be to challenge the rent increase at the tribunal which may or may not go in your favour. There’s a sticky at the top of the board for Tenancies in England and Wales that includes a section about rent increases if you want more information. The sticky also includes a section about how and when tenancies can legally be ended which you may also find useful as you do not wish to get caught out by tenancy periods. 

 I don't agree with it and I'm telling the landlord that I want to leave instead, please serve me Section 21

the right thing to do IMO is:

- tell the LL that you dont consider a notice via whatsapp as being served
- ask them to serve via the means agreed in the tenancy agreement
- once received that way, say you disagree with the price increase
- leave it at that, no need to tell them you want to have a S21 served
- personally, i would start being rather unconstructive with any further viewing enquiries or so, eg surveys, etc. 

If I don't receive any letter with rent increase, my plan is to stay silent and pay the current rent. If she comes to me in a month asking why I didn't pay more then I'll tell her and she will lose another month. It is not my job really to tell her straightaway. 

Regarding viewings, it's too late. That makes that situation so absurd. She found a buyer in April, I started my purchase literally 2 weeks later and she knows that. So she will sell that flat in 2-3 months, I'll buy mine in 2 months yet she came up with a brilliant idea to increase the rent at the very end... However if she wants to play, I've got a few tricks that I can use. For example we haven't got any inventory check, when that flat is fully furnished. 

Halabala9

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

I don't think you are right. If that was the case, why would they mention post, email etc? "In writing" would solve everything. WhatsApp photo isn't in writing anyway.

user1977

Halabala9 said:

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

I don't think you are right. If that was the case, why would they mention post, email etc? "In writing" would solve everything. WhatsApp photo isn't in writing anyway.

This is my day job, I am right. It doesn't say it must be served by recorded delivery, email etc. It says that if sent by registered post etc it will be deemed to be sufficiently served (i.e. the sender doesn't need to prove that it was actually delivered). Electronic forms of writing are still writing.

Halabala9

user1977 said:

Halabala9 said:

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

I don't think you are right. If that was the case, why would they mention post, email etc? "In writing" would solve everything. WhatsApp photo isn't in writing anyway.

This is my day job, I am right. It doesn't say it must be served by recorded delivery, email etc. It says that if sent by registered post etc it will be deemed to be sufficiently served (i.e. the sender doesn't need to prove that it was actually delivered). Electronic forms of writing are still writing.

But "writing" and "not deemed as properly served" still doesn't mean that it was served. Why would that entire paragraph exist in the agreement at all, if you could as well jusr send a pigeon? Why would we agree our email addresses in this agreement when you can simply ignore all that? I may as well delete my WhatsApp or say that my girlfriend was using my phone and I didn't see any message.