Section 13 rent increase

Schwarzwald

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

No, you have another look please.

the clause has TWO conditions connected by an AND:

"... (1) served in writing AND [...]  (2) if sent by ..."

so her whatsapp fails clearly No.2.

"Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing AND will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

user1977

Halabala9 said:

user1977 said:

Halabala9 said:

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

I don't think you are right. If that was the case, why would they mention post, email etc? "In writing" would solve everything. WhatsApp photo isn't in writing anyway.

This is my day job, I am right. It doesn't say it must be served by recorded delivery, email etc. It says that if sent by registered post etc it will be deemed to be sufficiently served (i.e. the sender doesn't need to prove that it was actually delivered). Electronic forms of writing are still writing.

But "writing" and "not deemed as properly served" still doesn't mean that it was served. 

Correct, the landlord would need to prove that their alternative method was actually successfully served, they couldn't rely on a presumption that if they sent it then it reached you.

user1977

Schwarzwald said:

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

No, you have another look please.

the clause has TWO conditions connected by an AND:

"... (1) served in writing AND [...]  (2) if sent by ..."

so her whatsapp fails clearly No.2.

"Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing AND will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

No, those aren't two conditions which are mandatory for the notice to be valid. You can't just skip over "will be deemed sufficiently served", that's the relevant part of that clause. It must be served in writing. It will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post etc. It does not say that it must be sent by registered post etc (which in any event would contradict the later reference to email also being valid).

mybestattempt

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

user1977 said:

Schwarzwald said:

Halabala9 said:

Just checked the agreement. Will see if she sent it by post, as WhatsApp isn't on that list for sure. However the agreement doesn't really say anything about rent increases at all. The information below is just notices section, so I assume it applies to rent increase too, unless S13 is a different legislation that doesn't apply to tenancy agreements?

Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing and will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

The Landlord and the Tenant agree that notices pursuant to this agreement may be served on the other party by email. The email addresses for notice are:

Landlord: xxxxxxxx

Tenant: xxxxxxxx

Notice served by email shall be deemed sufficiently served if it is sent to the Tenant or the Landlord at the email addresses identified above in this agreement and no notification of failure to deliver that email is received. Notices served by email will be deemed served on the next working day after sending.

According to this agreement and wording, LL can only serve notice via recorded delivery post,  prepaid first class post, left at the Premises or email.

No, have another look. The only thing which is mandatory is that the notice has to be in writing. It provides for deemed delivery if sent by specific methods, but doesn't preclude notices being sent by other methods.

No, you have another look please.

the clause has TWO conditions connected by an AND:

"... (1) served in writing AND [...]  (2) if sent by ..."

so her whatsapp fails clearly No.2.

"Any notice served upon the Tenant by the Landlord pursuant to this agreement or any statute or regulation must be served in writing AND will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post or first class post to or left at the Premises. Notices served by recorded delivery post, or prepaid first class post to the Premises, shall

be deemed to have been properly served and received by the Tenant on the second day after posting (or if that day is not a working day on the next working day), or in the case of notices left at the Premises on the next

working day after delivery.

No, those aren't two conditions which are mandatory for the notice to be valid. You can't just skip over "will be deemed sufficiently served", that's the relevant part of that clause. It must be served k in writing. It will be deemed sufficiently served if sent by registered post etc. It does not say that it must be sent by registered post etc (which in any event would contradict the later reference to email also being valid)

I agree with @user1977.


The wording of the tenancy agreement doesn't exclude any method of service provided the notice is in writing.

It says if it's posted it's deemed to be delivered by a certain date after the date it was posted.

(It also says if it's served by email to the email address in the tenancy agreement it's deemed to be delivered the next day).


Does @RHemmings have a link to the case where the WhatsApp was found to be an acceptable method to serve/deliver a legal document?

BarelySentientAI

Hudson v Hathway [2022] - sort of.  That said that an electronic document with your name attached was a contract, it was about an email but interpreted by many to include whatsapp, sms etc.  The only ones I know of specifically talking about WhatsApp are from India and Uganda, but I'm by no means a legal library.

And yes, that tenancy agreement clearly says that:

1. Any notice must be served in writing.
2. If you send it by 1st class or registered post, then it's legally assumed to have arrived.

It doesn't say that notices have to be by post to be valid. 

RHemmings

The case I saw was very different, but the conclusion was that WhatsApp was a suitable method to serve a legal notice. 

https://www.familylaw.co.uk/news_and_comment/service-by-whatsapp

Halabala9

I'm not sure I understand that discussion. If that would be the case, that WhatsApp is a suitable method to deliver S13 to me, then it makes the entire Notices paragraph in the agreement totally pointless. They could have written literally one sentence "Any notice needs to be served in writing". Why did we agree emails for example when now I haven't received anything by email or post but on WhatsApp instead? So what did we sign if that agreement allows something like that because it doesn't exclude it? 

You can't really write the entire list of exclusions, because that wouldn't be practical and pretty much impossible. There need to be some level of reasonability, we both sign a contract that says post or email and in writing. It doesn't mention pigeons, so does it mean that I should check every pigeon around the building as one of them might have a message for me?

My question is simple, but it seems to he getting complicated. Can I simply ignore that WhatsApp message based on what I've got in the contract. What if I delete WhatsApp or lose my phone?

Edit:

https://www.familylaw.co.uk/news_and_comment/service-by-whatsapp

That seems like a totally different situation. They rather didn't have any agreement signed that specifically mentioned methods of notices. 

On top of that:

In relation to the English proceedings, the claimant obtained an order for alternative service, by which she was given permission to serve the claim form on the defendant by way of Whatsapp message.

BarelySentientAI

Halabala9 said:

I'm not sure I understand that discussion. If that would be the case, that WhatsApp is a suitable method to deliver S13 to me, then it makes the entire Notices paragraph in the agreement totally pointless. They could have written literally one sentence "Any notice needs to be served in writing". Why did we agree emails for example when now I haven't received anything by email or post but on WhatsApp instead? So what did we sign if that agreement allows something like that because it doesn't exclude it? 

The point of the paragraph is to explain that with those specific methods, proof of posting is legally accepted as proof that you have received it.  Hence the "deemed to have been served".

Any other method would need proof of receipt.

It's very common.  Might confuse people who've never come across it before, but does mean something and being there is useful 

Jemma01

BarelySentientAI said:

Halabala9 said:

I'm not sure I understand that discussion. If that would be the case, that WhatsApp is a suitable method to deliver S13 to me, then it makes the entire Notices paragraph in the agreement totally pointless. They could have written literally one sentence "Any notice needs to be served in writing". Why did we agree emails for example when now I haven't received anything by email or post but on WhatsApp instead? So what did we sign if that agreement allows something like that because it doesn't exclude it? 

The point of the paragraph is to explain that with those specific methods, proof of posting is legally accepted as proof that you have received it.  Hence the "deemed to have been served".

Any other method would need proof of receipt.

It's very common.  Might confuse people who've never come across it before, but does mean something and being there is useful 

I think a lot is also historical that post was the only way available, then emails came about triggering lots of questions about digital ways of communicating. It'd be unreasonable in today's day and age to be questioning the rest of the digital means. Lots of old papers don't get updated. WhatsApp shows delivery, I don't think there are concerns around it's reliability same way as emails. Updates to legal papers needs lots of thought to manage misinterpretation.

silvercar

It may not be about you. It could be that the new buyer is a landlord who intends increasing the current rent. So to oblige, you get the rent increase notice, so the new landlord gets a higher rent or an empty property. It may even be that the new landlord needs to show a higher rent in order to get their mortgage.