Pay per mile

400ixl

forgotmyname said:

Recent road trip and we spotted many, what was a surprise the amount that had popped up locally without us noticing.  Local retail park have them
near the entrance and a ratrun to the retail park is also covered by 2 otrher cameras so you cannot avoid them if you go shopping.

You don't need black boxes installed, they have enough cameras in place already and more will appear if they detect routes that the cameras
do not cover.

Some people seem to think this is going to replace current schemes, no the charging will be extra to current charges. Currently paying ULEZ then
you will still pay it. VED etc will still be payable, this will be an extra charge.

Whilst not disagreeing that there is a capability wider than many think.

Many of these ANPR cameras you are referring to are privately owned, such as by car parking companies and would be of no use at all to monitoring traffic journeys on the roads.

Other cameras that are on the roads are just sensors and not ANPR capable.

We are a long way away from being able to accurately track vehicle journeys by camera. Certainly at a per mile level.

WellKnownSid

What if a lot more people shifted to EVs with V2G support on their smart EVSE - and this resulted in a £100bn reduction in planned infrastructure spend across the transmission network - would EV drivers be compensated with negative VED or free miles?

Seems like a win:win to me.

MattMattMattUK

WellKnownSid said:

What if a lot more people shifted to EVs with V2G support on their smart EVSE - and this resulted in a £100bn reduction in planned infrastructure spend across the transmission network - would EV drivers be compensated with negative VED or free miles?

Seems like a win:win to me.

That has nothing to do with the EV itself, the same applies to battery storage, solar export etc.

They would/should get nothing as a driver, they should be correctly compensated via their energy bills. 

Hoenir

Car_54 said:

WellKnownSid said:

badmemory said:

Adding it to fuel would not solve the problem of EVs on the whole causing more damage to roads than normal personal vehicles.

This is a new one on me... please explain?

EVs are generally heavier than the equivalent ICE car, and so cause considerably more damage to the roads.

However, it is still as nothing compared to goods vehicles and buses.

Until the majority are driving EV's. Creates yet a bigger problem down the road. 

MattMattMattUK

Car_54 said:

WellKnownSid said:

badmemory said:

Adding it to fuel would not solve the problem of EVs on the whole causing more damage to roads than normal personal vehicles.

This is a new one on me... please explain?

EVs are generally heavier than the equivalent ICE car, and so cause considerably more damage to the roads.

This is not actually accurate. Yes EVs are on average heavier cars than petrol or diesel cars, but that is generally because they are bigger cars. A Tesla Model 3 is equivalent to a BMW 3 Series, the Model 3 weighs 1,830 KG, the 3 Series weighs 1,890 KG, weights across similarly sized vehicles are roughly comparable, eg. an EV SUV sill be comparable in weight to a petrol SUV of similar size. 

Cars have got bigger and heavier over the last few decades, especially with the rise in the number of SUVs. This is similar to those who complain that multi-story car parks will have to be made stronger and/or reduce capacity due to the weight of EVs, where as the far bigger issue is having to account for SUVs. A further example would be the maximum weight of a Tesla Model X is 2,415 KG, the weight for a Range Rover is 2,509KG, with a full tank of fuel that rises to 2,599 KG. 

MouldyOldDough

Goudy said:

From April 2025 EV's will move onto the first band on whatever group they fall in based on year of registration.

Vehicle tax for electric and low emission vehicles - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if your EV was registered after 1st April 2017, you will pay the lower band which is currently £190. (though that is of course subject to change).

If your EV was registered between 1st March 2001 and 31st March 2017, you will move onto the first band with a value. (the £0 band will no longer exist).
The first band of value in this date group is currently £20 (though that is of course subject to change).

From the same date in 2025 they will also remove the £10 discount for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles.
Again, what you will pay will depend on if it's pre or post 1st April 2017.

Also from April 2025, new EV's exceeding £40,000 will also be liable for the expensive car supplement (luxury car tax).
This is currently £410 a year (again it's subject to change) for five years.

Note, this supplement is first added to the second years VED, this means it's paid for in year two to year six and not for year one to year five. 
The first years VED is based on Co2 emissions (which are again subject to change).


There is still a large tax offset between EV's and ICE's.
Current taxation on the different fuels is quite different.
Tax on petrol and diesel fuel is around 53%. (Fuel Duty + VAT).
Electricity has VAT at either 5% for home use or 20% for business use (public chargers). 

 

"Electric and low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31 March 2017

These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This is £20 for 2024 but is subject to change for 2025"

What about my Suzuki Baleno SZ5 Automatic - first registered March 2017 - currently paying £35

Emissions are 115 g/km

Will that increase next year ?

MattMattMattUK

MouldyOldDough said:

Goudy said:

From April 2025 EV's will move onto the first band on whatever group they fall in based on year of registration.

Vehicle tax for electric and low emission vehicles - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if your EV was registered after 1st April 2017, you will pay the lower band which is currently £190. (though that is of course subject to change).

If your EV was registered between 1st March 2001 and 31st March 2017, you will move onto the first band with a value. (the £0 band will no longer exist).
The first band of value in this date group is currently £20 (though that is of course subject to change).

From the same date in 2025 they will also remove the £10 discount for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles.
Again, what you will pay will depend on if it's pre or post 1st April 2017.

Also from April 2025, new EV's exceeding £40,000 will also be liable for the expensive car supplement (luxury car tax).
This is currently £410 a year (again it's subject to change) for five years.

Note, this supplement is first added to the second years VED, this means it's paid for in year two to year six and not for year one to year five. 
The first years VED is based on Co2 emissions (which are again subject to change).


There is still a large tax offset between EV's and ICE's.
Current taxation on the different fuels is quite different.
Tax on petrol and diesel fuel is around 53%. (Fuel Duty + VAT).
Electricity has VAT at either 5% for home use or 20% for business use (public chargers). 

 

"Electric and low emission cars registered between 1 March 2001 and 31 March 2017

These vehicles will move to the first band that has a VED value. This is £20 for 2024 but is subject to change for 2025"

What about my Suzuki Baleno SZ5 Automatic - first registered March 2017 - currently paying £35

Emissions are 115 g/km

Will that increase next year ?

It is expected that it would move to the "standard rate" of £190 per year, but nothing has been confirmed yet. 

Goudy

If it's currently £35 a year it must have been registered before April 2017 as it's on Band C: Cars producing 111 to 120g/km.

As far as these changes go (it's not a hybrid or EV), so it will stay on Band C.

What that Band C costs next year is anyone's guess.

I expect there might be a creep in price of all the 2001 to end of March 2017 Bands, so they all shuffle upwards by a few quid and an increase on the £190 for cars after April 2017.

This price increase of VED's is just a guess.
The new Government started complaining of blackhole on day one.
The last Government already had eyes on all vehicles filling a hole, hence the VED on EV's.

If road pricing is to become acceptable to the masses, it'll have to work out better for the majority than what's already on the table, so I would say straight VED may become more expensive in the meantime to make pay per mile look very attractive in the future, but like I wrote, just a guess.

  

born_again

forgotmyname said:

facade said:

It is all Government propaganda.

If you read your clickbait feed, State Pension will be means tested, National Insurance will be deducted from State Pension, road pricing introduced, huge rises in Income Tax, VAT, National Insurance, car tax & fuel duty.

They are just softening us up with rumour so whatever they do spring on us in October we will be grateful that it isn't as bad as we feared.

Road pricing for EVs is a non-starter until cars start reporting their position. They can't use the mileage at MOT because everyone will get their mileage "adjusted". Road pricing for IC cars is already here in the form of fuel duty.

Far too much Clickbait (News, that is not news)

Road pricing is more advanced than we may realise, several youtubers have recently done videos on ANPR cameras popping up all over the country.

Recent road trip and we spotted many, what was a surprise the amount that had popped up locally without us noticing.  Local retail park have them
near the entrance and a ratrun to the retail park is also covered by 2 otrher cameras so you cannot avoid them if you go shopping.

You don't need black boxes installed, they have enough cameras in place already and more will appear if they detect routes that the cameras
do not cover.

Some people seem to think this is going to replace current schemes, no the charging will be extra to current charges. Currently paying ULEZ then
you will still pay it. VED etc will still be payable, this will be an extra charge.

Many car parks have ANPR, it's a revenue generating stream for the parking co's. Unless you frequent the parking section here.. 👍

It is fine putting in the ANPR camera's, but at what cost with the amount needed.
Leeds when setting up the clean air zone that Covid caused the scrappage of cost £20 Million in wasted funds. That was only a camera on each entry point.
Then there is the IT infrastructure to go with ANPR to charge people & bill them, then chase all the cars with incorrect owners.
If they started now, would be lucky to be online & working by 2035.
Ever known a Government IT system come in on time & budget 🤣

Mildly_Miffed

Six pages of discussion, and nobody's noticed that behind the fluffy MSN wrapper, the article is from GBNews?

It's just the usual KGBeebies ragebait, aimed at people who would go for the Express or Mail, but don't really do reading.

Yes, Labour *could* be planning to introduce road pricing in a month and a bit's time. But... it's almost certain they won't... There's SO MANY barriers to it, even before you get to the "but what does it look like?" reality.

This is the report from the last government consultation on the subject - https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5802/cmselect/cmtrans/789/report.html