Pay per mile

born_again

Once it was mooted that a extra charge of fuel was the fairest way, as the more miles, the more you pay in fuel. But certain groups protested & it was scrapped.
Of course now with EV, this can not be implemented, as there is no way of costing the charge at home. As even smart meters can not work that one out, from normal house usage. It would in reality require a separate metered supply just for charging at home.

Pay at MOT while sounds good, but has the issue of no MOT for 3 years, so how would that work? People having to pay in arrears & another IT system & resulting staff to chase the non payers & checking that the figures are correct.. MOT not entering KM instead of miles as seen from time to time.

As well as this falls right into the civil liberties groups that think this is just big brother tracking you. Just like having ID cards.

HHarry

born_again said:

Pay at MOT while sounds good, but has the issue of no MOT for 3 years, so how would that work? People having to pay in arrears & another IT system & resulting staff to chase the non payers & checking that the figures are correct.. MOT not entering KM instead of miles as seen from time to time.

 The fee you pay to register a new vehicle covers you for the first 3 years?  Obviously it would need to be more than the current £55.

 It’s not perfect because you could do starship miles in those 3 years (perfect for Reps!), but simple.

born_again

HHarry said:

born_again said:

Pay at MOT while sounds good, but has the issue of no MOT for 3 years, so how would that work? People having to pay in arrears & another IT system & resulting staff to chase the non payers & checking that the figures are correct.. MOT not entering KM instead of miles as seen from time to time.

 The fee you pay to register a new vehicle covers you for the first 3 years?  Obviously it would need to be more than the current £55.

 It’s not perfect because you could do starship miles in those 3 years (perfect for Reps!), but simple.

From next April VED on all new car sales will be more than £55. Roughly around £190 even for EV's

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vehicle-tax-for-electric-and-low-emissions-vehicles

Marksfish

tacpot12 said:

If the problem that you are trying to fix is falling Vehicle Excise Duty due to electric cars, the answer would seem to be to increase VED rates for non-electric vehicles, and introduce a small charge for electric vehicles, e.g. £30.

Think you will find this is happening next year, although not a small charge (forgive the pun). All EV's registered after 2017 will be subject to standard VED rates retrospectively. Most new EV's will be subject to the higher rate for the first 5 years due to their cost. Not bad for a system that is supposed to be emissions rated!!

I don't have a problem with paying VED, but bring back the disc so you can see at a glance all the people faioing to pay their way.

Ectophile

Marksfish said:

tacpot12 said:

If the problem that you are trying to fix is falling Vehicle Excise Duty due to electric cars, the answer would seem to be to increase VED rates for non-electric vehicles, and introduce a small charge for electric vehicles, e.g. £30.

Think you will find this is happening next year, although not a small charge (forgive the pun). All EV's registered after 2017 will be subject to standard VED rates retrospectively. Most new EV's will be subject to the higher rate for the first 5 years due to their cost. Not bad for a system that is supposed to be emissions rated!!

I don't have a problem with paying VED, but bring back the disc so you can see at a glance all the people faioing to pay their way.

We used to have an emissions based system.  But people "cheated" and bought more efficient cars.  So the government got less tax.

So the government scrapped the emissions bands for all new cars, and we're now back on a 2-tier system for big cars and small cars.

forgotmyname

facade said:

It is all Government propaganda.

If you read your clickbait feed, State Pension will be means tested, National Insurance will be deducted from State Pension, road pricing introduced, huge rises in Income Tax, VAT, National Insurance, car tax & fuel duty.

They are just softening us up with rumour so whatever they do spring on us in October we will be grateful that it isn't as bad as we feared.

Road pricing for EVs is a non-starter until cars start reporting their position. They can't use the mileage at MOT because everyone will get their mileage "adjusted". Road pricing for IC cars is already here in the form of fuel duty.

Far too much Clickbait (News, that is not news)

Road pricing is more advanced than we may realise, several youtubers have recently done videos on ANPR cameras popping up all over the country.

Recent road trip and we spotted many, what was a surprise the amount that had popped up locally without us noticing.  Local retail park have them
near the entrance and a ratrun to the retail park is also covered by 2 otrher cameras so you cannot avoid them if you go shopping.

You don't need black boxes installed, they have enough cameras in place already and more will appear if they detect routes that the cameras
do not cover.

Some people seem to think this is going to replace current schemes, no the charging will be extra to current charges. Currently paying ULEZ then
you will still pay it. VED etc will still be payable, this will be an extra charge.

Car_54

Marksfish said:

tacpot12 said:

If the problem that you are trying to fix is falling Vehicle Excise Duty due to electric cars, the answer would seem to be to increase VED rates for non-electric vehicles, and introduce a small charge for electric vehicles, e.g. £30.

Think you will find this is happening next year, although not a small charge (forgive the pun). All EV's registered after 2017 will be subject to standard VED rates retrospectively. Most new EV's will be subject to the higher rate for the first 5 years due to their cost. Not bad for a system that is supposed to be emissions rated!!

What makes you think it will be retrospective? That would be a new development.

Goudy

From April 2025 EV's will move onto the first band on whatever group they fall in based on year of registration.

Vehicle tax for electric and low emission vehicles - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

So if your EV was registered after 1st April 2017, you will pay the lower band which is currently £190. (though that is of course subject to change).

If your EV was registered between 1st March 2001 and 31st March 2017, you will move onto the first band with a value. (the £0 band will no longer exist).
The first band of value in this date group is currently £20 (though that is of course subject to change).

From the same date in 2025 they will also remove the £10 discount for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles.
Again, what you will pay will depend on if it's pre or post 1st April 2017.

Also from April 2025, new EV's exceeding £40,000 will also be liable for the expensive car supplement (luxury car tax).
This is currently £410 a year (again it's subject to change) for five years.

Note, this supplement is first added to the second years VED, this means it's paid for in year two to year six and not for year one to year five. 
The first years VED is based on Co2 emissions (which are again subject to change).


There is still a large tax offset between EV's and ICE's.
Current taxation on the different fuels is quite different.
Tax on petrol and diesel fuel is around 53%. (Fuel Duty + VAT).
Electricity has VAT at either 5% for home use or 20% for business use (public chargers). 

 

Grumpy_chap

Car_54 said:

Marksfish said:

tacpot12 said:

If the problem that you are trying to fix is falling Vehicle Excise Duty due to electric cars, the answer would seem to be to increase VED rates for non-electric vehicles, and introduce a small charge for electric vehicles, e.g. £30.

Think you will find this is happening next year, although not a small charge (forgive the pun). All EV's registered after 2017 will be subject to standard VED rates retrospectively. Most new EV's will be subject to the higher rate for the first 5 years due to their cost. Not bad for a system that is supposed to be emissions rated!!

What makes you think it will be retrospective? That would be a new development.

It is already announced and retrospective in so far as a car purchased under a zero VED band becomes chargeable.  This is not how previous changes have been implemented - cars up to 2017 under the old graduated bands remain in that even though the rules changed going forwards.  It means that a 2016 Fiesta will pay less VED than a 2020 EV.  That is how it is a retrospective change.

MattMattMattUK

Full black box system for both per mile and insurance, the reality is the damage caused by a 2,000kg car is only fractionally higher than a 1,000kg car, so weight categories could be introduced but they would not really be needed for standard vehicles (they would need to be higher for goods vehicles). 

In terms of the energy/fuel used an increase in the duty on petrol and diesel is long overdue, probably 10p now and another 5p a year for the rest of the decade. For domestic energy moving to full ToU tariffs for electricity make sense and gas needs to be increased to reflect the environmental cost, not just the cost of supply.