Pay per mile

Emmia

Baldytyke88 said:

It would be good if it worked, but it would be a bureaucratic nightmare. Getting rid of the unfair clean air zones would be great.

Just increase the tax on electricity generated using fossil fuels, to offset the tax revenue lost by banning the combustion engine.

And if no electricity is generated using fossil fuels?

Unfortunately roads cost money to maintain, and electric vehicles are heavier than the equivalents that use petrol/diesel which wears the road more. So tax will need to be raised and should include electric cars.

Really we need to get people generally out of cars, and using active travel methods like walking and cycling (cycling can often be done by people who would be classified as disabled, and hold a blue badge).

More active travel for shorter journeys would also improve the general health of the population, tackle the obesity epidemic and reduce pressure on the NHS.

But, the challenge to that is people would have to give up their little metal boxes, or be willing to use them far less frequently 

Car_54

Emmia said:

Baldytyke88 said:

It would be good if it worked, but it would be a bureaucratic nightmare. Getting rid of the unfair clean air zones would be great.

Just increase the tax on electricity generated using fossil fuels, to offset the tax revenue lost by banning the combustion engine.

Unfortunately roads cost money to maintain, and electric vehicles are heavier than the equivalents that use petrol/diesel which wears the road more. So tax will need to be raised and should include electric cars.

Yes, but for the last century road maintenance has not been paid for by motorists but out of general taxation.. There seems no good reason to change that - everyone benefits from roads, since almost everything we consume is delivered by road.

And for what it's worth road wear is caused overwhelmingly (in fact almost entirely) by goods vehicles and buses.

[See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law]

So, no need for hugely expensive road pricing, just abolish VED and stick a few pence onto income tax and/or VAT.

MouldyOldDough

Iceweasel said:

All Blue Badge holders are not exempt.

I'm not disabled enough.

What about driving outside the UK.

I drive about 3000 miles a year in the UK but approx 12000 miles in mainland Europe - I spent 5 months outside the UK last year - how are they going to take that into account.

And foreigners in this country - would they have to pay ?

how would this work ?

What about pre-1984 vehicles ? current historic exemption

its way to complex to even think about trying .....

facade

It is all Government propaganda.

If you read your clickbait feed, State Pension will be means tested, National Insurance will be deducted from State Pension, road pricing introduced, huge rises in Income Tax, VAT, National Insurance, car tax & fuel duty.

They are just softening us up with rumour so whatever they do spring on us in October we will be grateful that it isn't as bad as we feared.

Road pricing for EVs is a non-starter until cars start reporting their position. They can't use the mileage at MOT because everyone will get their mileage "adjusted". Road pricing for IC cars is already here in the form of fuel duty.

Emmia

Car_54 said:

Emmia said:

Baldytyke88 said:

It would be good if it worked, but it would be a bureaucratic nightmare. Getting rid of the unfair clean air zones would be great.

Just increase the tax on electricity generated using fossil fuels, to offset the tax revenue lost by banning the combustion engine.

Unfortunately roads cost money to maintain, and electric vehicles are heavier than the equivalents that use petrol/diesel which wears the road more. So tax will need to be raised and should include electric cars.

Yes, but for the last century road maintenance has not been paid for by motorists but out of general taxation.. There seems no good reason to change that - everyone benefits from roads, since almost everything we consume is delivered by road.

And for what it's worth road wear is caused overwhelmingly (in fact almost entirely) by goods vehicles and buses.

[See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law]

So, no need for hugely expensive road pricing, just abolish VED and stick a few pence onto income tax and/or VAT.

However you pay for it, we really need fewer cars on the road, more active travel - better health, reduced obesity, less pressure on the health service.

Nebulous2

If you want to move to a situation where people pay for usage, rather than a fixed cost for having a vehicle,  there are lots of ways to do it.

Stopping VED and adding a supplement to fuel would be simplest I think. 

Asking people to pay a fee per mile. New Zealand does something like this for diesel cars. You pay a fee per 1000kms and it is monitored when you get an mot, to ensure you have paid enough. 

Black boxes would be the most intrusive, would be costly and I suspect would be prone to technical gremlins.. That would allow variable pricing however, pay more at rush hour and on bank holidays. 

badmemory

I would have thought the easiest way would be to have every vehicle MOTed every year & then bill them for that mileage, including a factor for the size/type of vehicle.

LightFlare

Nebulous2 said:

If you want to move to a situation where people pay for usage, rather than a fixed cost for having a vehicle,  there are lots of ways to do it.

Stopping VED and adding a supplement to fuel would be simplest I think. 

Asking people to pay a fee per mile. New Zealand does something like this for diesel cars. You pay a fee per 1000kms and it is monitored when you get an mot, to ensure you have paid enough. 

Black boxes would be the most intrusive, would be costly and I suspect would be prone to technical gremlins.. That would allow variable pricing however, pay more at rush hour and on bank holidays. 

Already about to happen (apparently)

they never "promised" not to raise fuel duty -- 10p has been suggested

Nebulous2

LightFlare said:

Nebulous2 said:

If you want to move to a situation where people pay for usage, rather than a fixed cost for having a vehicle,  there are lots of ways to do it.

Stopping VED and adding a supplement to fuel would be simplest I think. 

Asking people to pay a fee per mile. New Zealand does something like this for diesel cars. You pay a fee per 1000kms and it is monitored when you get an mot, to ensure you have paid enough. 

Black boxes would be the most intrusive, would be costly and I suspect would be prone to technical gremlins.. That would allow variable pricing however, pay more at rush hour and on bank holidays. 

Already about to happen (apparently)

they never "promised" not to raise fuel duty -- 10p has been suggested

Those are two different things.

Wasn't there supposed to be a fuel duty escalator, where the cost of fuel went up annually? Then in the budget they made a point that they had 'frozen fuel duty.' 

I don't know the figures, but I imagine more than 10p would be needed to replace VED. It has the benefit that those with the thirstiest engines pay more. 

Car_54

Nebulous2 said:

LightFlare said:

Nebulous2 said:

If you want to move to a situation where people pay for usage, rather than a fixed cost for having a vehicle,  there are lots of ways to do it.

Stopping VED and adding a supplement to fuel would be simplest I think. 

Asking people to pay a fee per mile. New Zealand does something like this for diesel cars. You pay a fee per 1000kms and it is monitored when you get an mot, to ensure you have paid enough. 

Black boxes would be the most intrusive, would be costly and I suspect would be prone to technical gremlins.. That would allow variable pricing however, pay more at rush hour and on bank holidays. 

Already about to happen (apparently)

they never "promised" not to raise fuel duty -- 10p has been suggested

Those are two different things.

Wasn't there supposed to be a fuel duty escalator, where the cost of fuel went up annually? Then in the budget they made a point that they had 'frozen fuel duty.' 

There is/was indeed a fuel duty escalator, but the government haven't applied it for a while with the cost-of-living crisis.

And it doesn't matter what "they" said in the budget. "They" are no longer in power!