MacBook Purchased new at Argos but 2nd hand, now £750 fault

gelato_cat

Okell said:

Why isn't this just a straightforward "goods not as described"?

The OP bought it in February 2023 but the OP has written evidence from Apple that a previous owner had registered the product 5 months previously.

Unless Argos described it as "pre-owned" or "refurbished" the consumer's expectation has to be that the product is brand new, and that some previous purchaser hasn't previously gone so far as to register the product.  I'm sure doing so would have prevented it being returned to Argos.

The consumer also has a legitimate expectation that they are buying a full Apple warranty should they wish to rely on it.  If a previous purchaser registered the product 5 months earlier then Argos are not selling an item that conforms to contract.

What am I missing?

(I'm not commenting on whether it's a consumer or B2B purchase)

That's what I've been thinking.  Even if the laptop hadn't broken, this machine still wasn't the same thing that the retailer told the customer it was.  Pre-owned vs brand new is a big difference.

sheramber

Grumpy_chap said:

allyjones said:

So I purchased from an Argos store in Feb 23 a MacBook Pro M1 2021 16BG 512GB for £1749 (still have receipt with date).

I switched it on in Feb 23, set up Apple iCloud etc, used it 2-3 times for an hour or so … then put it back in its packaging and box on my shelf. Used it once / twice September 23 and didn’t use again till 5 days ago when I turned it on, updated all the update and charged it up.

I used it for about 6 hours 5 days ago then shut it down for the evening .

Next day switched it on and nothing, it’s bricked. 

Took it to Apple Store Genius Bar who said the logic board is broken and costs £740 to fix (this is after 12 hours in total of using it over 18 months). 

However when in the Apple Store they told me my MacBook had been sold and registered as new and bought in September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started. 

It looks like Argos sold me a default returned MacBook in Feb 23. 

Apple wrote on my emailed report it was registered with them Sept 22 and my receipt says Feb 23. They’ve also said no signs of damage or marks and keys working. 

As it sat boxed on my shelf for 18 months, Apple have said it’s out of warranty and told me to go to Argos under consumer law for selling me a defaulted MacBook. 

Apple have given me email proof it was registered for warranty September 22 and I have a receipt saying I bought on my credit card Feb 23. 

Can anyone give any advice on what to do next please as I believe I’ve bought a faulty product (due to someone else registering it 6 months me buying from Argos) but it’s been 18 months since I bought it. 

Thank you 

*im in Wales if that matters 

There are some commentators in the forum that will say this was a "goods not as described" or "fault at time of purchase" issue, and there is the evidence to support that stance (report from Apple stating the product was first registered September 2022 which was 5 months or so before the OP purchased the device February 2023), hence consumer rights for "goods not conforming" can be enforced for ever.

What I don't understand is the timeline:

1. OP purchased the laptop February 2023.  Used it a couple of times.
2. OP then used the device again 6 months later - September 2023 - but found it to be faulty.
3. OP took the device to Apple to confirmed the fault and gave the report that the device was first registered (by a.n.other) in September 2022.
4. OP then placed the device on the shelf for another year.
5. OP now wants to claim from Argos that the "new" laptop was actually sold as "second hand"

What I am at a loss to understand is why the OP found the device to be faulty (and the issue about prior registration) in September 2023 but is only now (August 2024) trying to claim from Argos.  Surely, the claim should be made when the issue is identified rather than leaving the device on the shelf for a year.  

Used it once / twice September 23 and didn’t use again till 5 days ago when I turned it on, updated all the update and charged it up.

I used it for about 6 hours 5 days ago then shut it down for the evening .

Next day switched it on and nothing, it’s bricked. 

The OP only found the fault 4days ago

born_again

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

allyjones

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

electriccactus

allyjones said:

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

I've heard of cases, particularly through third-party sellers, where the warranty period has already started before the product was sold.

It's possible, depending on where Argos sourced this device from, that the warranty start date is just when it left the Apple supply chain. To be honest with the way Apple devices are packaged I'm not convinced it would be easy to repackage them in a way that wouldn't be noticeable to someone (re)opening it.

Either way, the warranty isn't relevant here, it would have expired by now even if it correctly started when the device was purchased from Argos.

electriccactus

Alderbank said:

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

The reason for the purchase (i.e. the intent) is entirely what matters. If my company buys a van for me to drive to clients' locations but I only drive it on three occasions to go and pick up the kids after school and it otherwise sits on my driveway does it then morph into a consumer purchase? Of course not. It was bought for business use, but it didn't end up getting used for that purpose. This goes both ways obviously. If someone buys a product for personal use but it only ever ends up being used a few times in the course of business I don't think the retailer can justifiably proclaim "Aha, this was a B2B transaction then!" and get away with doing nothing.

This seems vaguely reminiscent of Makro some years back who were denying consumer rights on the basis of them only dealing with businesses and so consumer rights did not apply. I believe people successfully argued that it was not relevant that Makro officially only did B2B but that if the products were bought with the intention of going into someone's house for their domestic use, they were covered under consumer laws. It probably resulted in them losing their Makro account however.

At the end of the day it is highly unlikely that Argos are going to do a Columbo on the OP when they try and return it just to see if they can get out of dealing with it but I still think it is important to be correct about what is or isn't a business purchase. Others may be misled into thinking that their business purchases are not that because they ended up being used for personal use when that's not the case.

allyjones

electriccactus said:

allyjones said:

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

I've heard of cases, particularly through third-party sellers, where the warranty period has already started before the product was sold.

It's possible, depending on where Argos sourced this device from, that the warranty start date is just when it left the Apple supply chain. To be honest with the way Apple devices are packaged I'm not convinced it would be easy to repackage them in a way that wouldn't be noticeable to someone (re)opening it.

Either way, the warranty isn't relevant here, it would have expired by now even if it correctly started when the device was purchased from Argos.

Yeah, I understand the warranty is long gone now. 

To me the date discrepancy of sold sept 22 on apples system potentially implies someone’s had it before me and returned it and I’ve been left with a MacBook that didn’t last longer than 12 hours use (for me). 

I’m going to take everyone’s advice given on here and try my best with Argos, and I’m glad some people responding to this post have given me no hope of getting a refund / replacement as it’s letting me down slowly before Argos tell me to sling my hook. 

No doubt it’s going to have to be binned and a lesson will be learned (buy direct from Apple or don’t buy Apple). 

But appreciate everyone’s responses 

Ergates

electriccactus said:

Alderbank said:

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

The reason for the purchase (i.e. the intent) is entirely what matters. If my company buys a van for me to drive to clients' locations but I only drive it on three occasions to go and pick up the kids after school and it otherwise sits on my driveway does it then morph into a consumer purchase? Of course not. It was bought for business use, but it didn't end up getting used for that purpose.

The important point there being "if my company buys a van".  If a company buys something, it's a B2B transaction.

gelato_cat

allyjones said:

electriccactus said:

allyjones said:

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

I've heard of cases, particularly through third-party sellers, where the warranty period has already started before the product was sold.

It's possible, depending on where Argos sourced this device from, that the warranty start date is just when it left the Apple supply chain. To be honest with the way Apple devices are packaged I'm not convinced it would be easy to repackage them in a way that wouldn't be noticeable to someone (re)opening it.

Either way, the warranty isn't relevant here, it would have expired by now even if it correctly started when the device was purchased from Argos.

Yeah, I understand the warranty is long gone now. 

To me the date discrepancy of sold sept 22 on apples system potentially implies someone’s had it before me and returned it and I’ve been left with a MacBook that didn’t last longer than 12 hours use (for me). 

I’m going to take everyone’s advice given on here and try my best with Argos, and I’m glad some people responding to this post have given me no hope of getting a refund / replacement as it’s letting me down slowly before Argos tell me to sling my hook. 

No doubt it’s going to have to be binned and a lesson will be learned (buy direct from Apple or don’t buy Apple). 

But appreciate everyone’s responses 

The other option is: buy through a third party and get AppleCare.

Good luck with your complaint.  I am optimistic, even if you aren't! 

Here's some extra info which talks about your statutory rights as well as the Apple warranty: https://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/uk/

Okell

allyjones said:

electriccactus said:

allyjones said:

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

I've heard of cases, particularly through third-party sellers, where the warranty period has already started before the product was sold.

It's possible, depending on where Argos sourced this device from, that the warranty start date is just when it left the Apple supply chain. To be honest with the way Apple devices are packaged I'm not convinced it would be easy to repackage them in a way that wouldn't be noticeable to someone (re)opening it.

Either way, the warranty isn't relevant here, it would have expired by now even if it correctly started when the device was purchased from Argos.

Yeah, I understand the warranty is long gone now. 

To me the date discrepancy of sold sept 22 on apples system potentially implies someone’s had it before me and returned it and I’ve been left with a MacBook that didn’t last longer than 12 hours use (for me). 

I’m going to take everyone’s advice given on here and try my best with Argos, and I’m glad some people responding to this post have given me no hope of getting a refund / replacement as it’s letting me down slowly before Argos tell me to sling my hook. 

No doubt it’s going to have to be binned and a lesson will be learned (buy direct from Apple or don’t buy Apple). 

But appreciate everyone’s responses 

Don't be so pessimistic!  

Re-read my post at 2:21pm today and @gelato_cat's at 2:30pm

Your argument to Argos is that they sold you something that was not as described.   See s11 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk)

You say that Argos advertised it as "New" but you have written confirmation from evidence from Apple that it had previously been sold five months before you bought it.  That means that it had been bought by someone else before you bought it and it also meant that nearly half of the 12 months warranty had already expired when you took delivery of it.

Your argument is that it was incorrect to describe it as "New" if it had already been sold five months previously.

Perhaps more importantly, if "New" Apple products come with a 12 months manufacturer's warranty, then it must be an implied term in the contract for sale - and a legitimate expectation of the consumer - that an Apple product described as "New" will come with a 12 months warranty, not 7 months.

Once you've complained to Argos they strictly speaking have one opportunity either to repair it or replace it.  I don't suppose repair is an option so they might replace it.

Alternatively you could ask for a refund.  The problem there is you would now only be entitled to a partial refund.  Argos would be entitled to make a reduction from a full refund to reflect the fact that the item has been available for you to use for 18 months since you bought it.  The fact you've hardly used it at all is no fault of Argos.  I suppose you might get a refund of 60% - 70% of the original price maybe as little as 50%.  I simply don't know.

I'm not saying this approach would work - I can see counter arguments to it and nothing is certain.  But what have you got to lose?  If you don't get a satisfactory result straight away, you could then consider if it's worth suing them.

(Of course you could additionally argue to Argos that it was "not of satisfactory quality" when you bought it, but after 18 months that might be more difficult to establish)