MacBook Purchased new at Argos but 2nd hand, now £750 fault

Okell

Regarding whether this is or is not a consumer purchase, all that is relevant is the definition of a consumer in s2(3) of the legislation:  "... an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession."

It's not necessarily clear to me whether this refers to the intentions of the purchaser when purchasing, or to the use that an item is subsequently put.

I'm not sure whether it's necessarily the case that no purchases made by a business can be consumer purchases ...

s2(4) puts the onus on the trader to prove that a purchaser is not a consumer.

electriccactus

Ergates said:

electriccactus said:

Alderbank said:

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

The reason for the purchase (i.e. the intent) is entirely what matters. If my company buys a van for me to drive to clients' locations but I only drive it on three occasions to go and pick up the kids after school and it otherwise sits on my driveway does it then morph into a consumer purchase? Of course not. It was bought for business use, but it didn't end up getting used for that purpose.

The important point there being "if my company buys a van".  If a company buys something, it's a B2B transaction.

And the OP bought a Macbook as a business (sole trader.)

There is no distinction here.

electriccactus

allyjones said:

electriccactus said:

allyjones said:

born_again said:

Ergates said:However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

One thing, if someone got as far as registering the warranty, that would say to me they have also set up & used the computer.

On your Mac, click the Apple menu in the corner of your screen. Choose System Settings > General > AppleCare & Warranty. Go to mysupport.apple.com and sign in with your Apple ID

Why did OP not register warranty at time of setting up?

Could it be Apple staff misskeyed the serial no?

Warranty starts on the day of purchase not when you open the box and set up the system 

The Apple engineer I spoke to yesterday said Apple are notified the day a product is sold and that’s the date warranty starts.

So if I buy a MacBook in say January and give as a gift still sealed in June, the warranty still starts in the January not the June. 

He was unable to tell me anything else only that my MacBook with my serial number was ‘date of purchase’ 8 September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started

however he acknowledged in his emailed report to me that he had seen my receipt that was dated 11 Feb 23 ‘however our system shows that the item was originally sold 08/09/22.’

It’s all so confusing. I’ve used Apple products 12+ years and never had anything like this before 

I've heard of cases, particularly through third-party sellers, where the warranty period has already started before the product was sold.

It's possible, depending on where Argos sourced this device from, that the warranty start date is just when it left the Apple supply chain. To be honest with the way Apple devices are packaged I'm not convinced it would be easy to repackage them in a way that wouldn't be noticeable to someone (re)opening it.

Either way, the warranty isn't relevant here, it would have expired by now even if it correctly started when the device was purchased from Argos.

Yeah, I understand the warranty is long gone now. 

To me the date discrepancy of sold sept 22 on apples system potentially implies someone’s had it before me and returned it and I’ve been left with a MacBook that didn’t last longer than 12 hours use (for me). 

I’m going to take everyone’s advice given on here and try my best with Argos, and I’m glad some people responding to this post have given me no hope of getting a refund / replacement as it’s letting me down slowly before Argos tell me to sling my hook. 

No doubt it’s going to have to be binned and a lesson will be learned (buy direct from Apple or don’t buy Apple). 

But appreciate everyone’s responses 

I'm not convinced that a 5 month gap implies that. 5 months (or say 3 months with 2 months sat on a shelf) is an awfully long time for someone to have a MacBook and be able to return it (in a condition that fools the next person into thinking it is new.)

I wouldn't say the lesson is to only buy from Apple, but it is to check that the warranty has not started already after you power it up. There are legitimate reasons why this can happen outside of someone returning an unwanted product.

allyjones

electriccactus said:

Ergates said:

electriccactus said:

Alderbank said:

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

The reason for the purchase (i.e. the intent) is entirely what matters. If my company buys a van for me to drive to clients' locations but I only drive it on three occasions to go and pick up the kids after school and it otherwise sits on my driveway does it then morph into a consumer purchase? Of course not. It was bought for business use, but it didn't end up getting used for that purpose.

The important point there being "if my company buys a van".  If a company buys something, it's a B2B transaction.

And the OP bought a Macbook as a business (sole trader.)

There is no distinction here.

I’m not a business, never been a business, it was a hobby that could’ve turned into a business / work but never did 

electriccactus

allyjones said:

electriccactus said:

Ergates said:

electriccactus said:

Alderbank said:

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

The reason for the purchase (i.e. the intent) is entirely what matters. If my company buys a van for me to drive to clients' locations but I only drive it on three occasions to go and pick up the kids after school and it otherwise sits on my driveway does it then morph into a consumer purchase? Of course not. It was bought for business use, but it didn't end up getting used for that purpose.

The important point there being "if my company buys a van".  If a company buys something, it's a B2B transaction.

And the OP bought a Macbook as a business (sole trader.)

There is no distinction here.

I’m not a business, never been a business, it was a hobby that could’ve turned into a business / work but never did 

We seem to be getting stuck on this for some reason, it's not directly relevant to this as ultimately Argos are very unlikely to grill you on the reason for the purchase.

“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession.

That is the definition as per the CRA. I'm not convinced someone buying a product with the intention of using it for an upcoming business idea/contract etc is a consumer as per that definition but it is largely academic unless you need to take the matter to court. Then you may become unstuck.

In the meantime, you might just want to raise the issue with Argos and see what they say.

allyjones

Just to update those that replied.

i sent Argos a special delivery letter explaining the issues with the MacBook and quoting consumer rights but had no response after 3 weeks 

took it into the Argos store I purchased it, spoke to a manager who said he’ll take it off us, send it to Apple and see what they say.

Apple came back and said £600 to fix it. We refused to pay and Argos offered us a refund of £1400

happy with the outcome

Thanks to those above that gave helpful advice