MacBook Purchased new at Argos but 2nd hand, now £750 fault

allyjones

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

It was going to be for work that was in the pipeline but  due to circumstances that work never happened so I used it a couple of times for personal use in Feb 23, used it a couple of times for personal use in September 23 and used it for personal use 5 days ago for 5-6 hours and the next day it was completely dead. 

It hasn’t been used for work purposes at all

electriccactus

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Alderbank

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

allyjones

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

user1977

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Alderbank

Ergates said:

Grumpy_chap said:

allyjones said:

So I purchased from an Argos store in Feb 23 a MacBook Pro M1 2021 16BG 512GB for £1749 (still have receipt with date).

I switched it on in Feb 23, set up Apple iCloud etc, used it 2-3 times for an hour or so … then put it back in its packaging and box on my shelf. Used it once / twice September 23 and didn’t use again till 5 days ago when I turned it on, updated all the update and charged it up.

I used it for about 6 hours 5 days ago then shut it down for the evening .

Next day switched it on and nothing, it’s bricked. 

Took it to Apple Store Genius Bar who said the logic board is broken and costs £740 to fix (this is after 12 hours in total of using it over 18 months). 

However when in the Apple Store they told me my MacBook had been sold and registered as new and bought in September 2022 and that’s when the warranty started. 

It looks like Argos sold me a default returned MacBook in Feb 23. 

Apple wrote on my emailed report it was registered with them Sept 22 and my receipt says Feb 23. They’ve also said no signs of damage or marks and keys working. 

As it sat boxed on my shelf for 18 months, Apple have said it’s out of warranty and told me to go to Argos under consumer law for selling me a defaulted MacBook. 

Apple have given me email proof it was registered for warranty September 22 and I have a receipt saying I bought on my credit card Feb 23. 

Can anyone give any advice on what to do next please as I believe I’ve bought a faulty product (due to someone else registering it 6 months me buying from Argos) but it’s been 18 months since I bought it. 

Thank you 

*im in Wales if that matters 

What I don't understand is the timeline:

1. OP purchased the laptop February 2023.  Used it a couple of times.
2. OP then used the device again 6 months later - September 2023 - but found it to be faulty.
3. OP took the device to Apple to confirmed the fault and gave the report that the device was first registered (by a.n.other) in September 2022.
4. OP then placed the device on the shelf for another year.
5. OP now wants to claim from Argos that the "new" laptop was actually sold as "second hand"

 

I'm not normally sympathetic when people claim something becomes 2nd hand the microsecond someone else breaks the seal on a box.  However, if someone else has got as far as registering the warrantee with Apple, then I think that definitely ticks that box - if for no other reason that it shortens the warrantee period.

Registration with Apple is more or less automatic, it is triggered when the device is started and certain activities carried out. That could conceivably be in the retailer's workshop to check that memory size is correct for example or to install bloatware. No personal details are logged. Unlike most manufacturer's warranties there is no need for the buyer to register in their name, the Apple warranty applies to whoever the current owner is when a claim is made.

Apple are very clear about when the warranty starts:

Apple Distribution International Ltd., warrants the Apple Product against defects in materials and workmanship  for a period of ONE (1) YEAR from the date of original retail purchase by the end-user purchaser ("Warranty Period").

The OP has a dated receipt from Argos.

Retail products pass through many ownerships before final sale (warehouses, distributors, wholesalers, etc) and final sale might be years after manufacture.
Custom and practice seems to be that the goods are considered 'new' until ownership passes to an end user in a retail sale.

RefluentBeans

allyjones said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

It was going to be for work that was in the pipeline but  due to circumstances that work never happened so I used it a couple of times for personal use in Feb 23, used it a couple of times for personal use in September 23 and used it for personal use 5 days ago for 5-6 hours and the next day it was completely dead. 

It hasn’t been used for work purposes at all

This does make things more complicated. The CRA is designed for consumers. Businesses (and business transactions) do not benefit from this added protection, but still have protections under the Sales of Goods Act; but this is far less protection. 

You intended to buy the product as a business purchase. Whatever ‘workflow’ changed and this was no longer needed. You have used it sparingly for personal use; but clearly this isn’t a ‘personal’ product or it would get used more. A workflow change is a business change snd any workflow change is considered based on resources.  

You’ve been told you have rights under the CRA. Personally, I would just go along with it being a personal purchase and speak to their customer services on the chat bot; or write an email (or if you insist - write a letter). Don’t start quoting sections of the CRA - just make it clear it you’re wanting to return it under your consumer rights act and not their returns policy. Drop the warranty issue - it’s a red herring and won’t help.

It’s worth noting, though, that you may have to prove the fault is inherent as the purchase was over 6 months ago. Apples ‘report’ likely isn’t enough - did they admit that it was their shoddy workmanship that caused the fault? If not then I’m afraid their ‘report’ is pretty useless (hint: Apple will never admit to a manufacturing defect…). A dead motherboard is Apples typical diagnosis for things that they can’t replace easily. You may need to take it to a computer shop and see what they say, and what they think caused the dead motherboard. 

Alderbank

user1977 said:

allyjones said:

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

Alderbank said:

electriccactus said:

photome said:

LightFlare said:

Still not convinced it was a consumer purchase anyway as the OP has stated twice it was for work

Obviously hasnt been for work since purchase as it has barely been used, so clearly a consumer  purchase.

How much usage it has had doesn't determine whether it was a business or consumer transaction.

I've bought things for work (freelance stuff) that never ended up being used as the work never materialised, which appears to be similar to the OP situation.

Argos would have to be able to prove that it was bought wholly or mainly for the buyer's business or profession.

Unless it was bought with a company credit card or a business account and the buyer had requested a VAT receipt I don't think that Argos will go down that route.
Even if they did, the buyer still has rights under SOGA.

It was purchased on a personal credit card and I’ve never been registered as a business 

What sort of "work" then if you're not a business? The type of credit card and whether you've been "registered" as a business don't necessarily matter for this point.

Neither does it matter whether the OP is a director, a dentist or a dustman.

It was used on three occasions, each time for personal use only. Whatever the original intent might have been there is zero evidence that on those occasions the OP was acting wholly or mainly for purposes that are related to their work.

Grumpy_chap

RefluentBeans said:

Agree with Grumpy above. The time to query the warranty provided by Apple is when it becomes apparent and not 12 months later. 

I also think the warranty is a red herring and will waste time and energy for you. The product is faulty, focus on consumer rights not contractual rights under the warranty. Apple has multiple reasons why it wouldn’t resolve the issue (and indeed it’s not the stores that get the final say - they send it to a repair centre who are incredibly strict to give out free repairs) - normally around water damage. You consumer rights have nothing to do with Apple - and all to do with Argos. But Argos are a nightmare (typically) to deal with - hence keep the story simple and straight. Don’t want to confuse them. 

I can't comment on "typically" but I know that I purchased a phone and, within a few weeks, the screen developed a fault.  I returned to the store with receipt but no packaging, politely explained the situation and was very soon leaving the store with another brand new phone.  All keeping calm and no raised voices or dramatics seemed to help.  

Okell

Why isn't this just a straightforward "goods not as described"?

The OP bought it in February 2023 but the OP has written evidence from Apple that a previous owner had registered the product 5 months previously.

Unless Argos described it as "pre-owned" or "refurbished" the consumer's expectation has to be that the product is brand new, and that some previous purchaser hasn't previously gone so far as to register the product.  I'm sure doing so would have prevented it being returned to Argos.

The consumer also has a legitimate expectation that they are buying a full Apple warranty should they wish to rely on it.  If a previous purchaser registered the product 5 months earlier then Argos are not selling an item that conforms to contract.

What am I missing?

(I'm not commenting on whether it's a consumer or B2B purchase)