Tenant not leaving, Failed section 21, Court date

propertyrental

Lots of info here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/67759913#Comment_67759913

To evict you'll need to either

* issue a new valid S21. To see if a new S21 would be valid check the flow chart I gave you earlier

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

or

* issue a S8 quoting a relevant ground. For grounds see here:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/schedule/2

wackyjoe332

The tenants have not broken any terms of the agreement,  I have seen a comment to issue Section 8 under Ground 1. Would this be the best route to take since the section 21 is almost likely going to be rejected.

newsgroupmonkey_

I'm going to throw an "out there" comment.
I get the impression that the tenants aren't in any way being a problem to you - in fact, they want to get evicted properly.

If you're sure you got a GSC back in 2017, have you asked them if they have a copy?
As a tenant, I always kept the copies given to me of the GSC.

saajan_12

wackyjoe332 said:

Thanks for the responses, they are great Ok here's a bullet point of the scenario as requested. 

1- Tenant moved in via letting agent - 12/06/2017 

2- Letting agent passed away and agency closed 01-12-2018 

3- I gave the current tenant a AST from 14-12-2018 and has not been renewed since.

4- April 2024, I decide I want to renovate the flat , new kitchen, bathroom, doors, windows and a complete new roof and move into the property myself, and I issued them a section 21 notice on 1st May 24.

5- When I researched how to issue a section 21, it stated we needed a GSC with the current tenancy and for any prev tenancies. I did not have a copy of the GSC from 2017 so I decided if I create a new tenancy and state the tenants have only been here for 1 year and provide the GSC relevant to this to submit the sec 21 , I would not need to show all previous ones. , hence I 'regretfully' created a new AST backdated from  Feb 23 - Feb 24 and submit this with the GSC for that period.

6- The tenant agreed as they wanted a council property and wanted to be given section 21,  but when the defence form came they filled it out and said everything I wrote about their tenancies was incorrect and they been there since 2017 after getting advice from the local housing officer. 

7- The court stated that the dates of what I wrote and the tenant defence form did not match and wanted to hold a hearing in August. Now section 21 will clearly not work either way now regardless of going to the hearing as I wont be able to get all the GSC since 2017, especially the one the letting agent provided in 2017 as I dont know who he used. 

8-  Do I need to attend the court hearing, they will 99% reject the claim if no GSC is provided I guess? Is it worth avoiding it and then submit a section 8 a few weeks after? 

9-  The decisions I made above, and to not seek legal help was my mistake , I want to find any solution now to get the tenants out. Section 21 has completely failed now, so if I can go down the section 8 route, what steps do I need to take and what grounds do I submit it on.

All help is very much appreciated, thanks for the replies! 

Not necessarily. You would need to be honest on what the actual dates were ie 2017. No need to mention the GSC unless they actually ask for it. There's 82 requirements, they don't routinely examine each one, just if there's a question raised about it. 

Alternatively if you're not going to attend the hearing then no point on losing the time.. withdraw the claim and send the tenant the new notice now. You could send both S21 (with correct dates) and S8 (ground 1) at the same time, to give yourself a fallback. 

theartfullodger

Were you named as landlord on original agent created tenancy? (Or was it a "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam? )

BikingBud

Tiglet2 said:

A landlord can evict a tenant using a Section 8 notice if the tenant has broken the terms of the tenancy agreement  This could include reasons such as rent arrears, damage to the property or causing a nuisance.  The landlord must specify the grounds for eviction in the notice and may need to prove these grounds in court.  Have the tenants broken the terms of the tenancy agreement?

Not an expert but as far as I understand a landlord can not evict tenant.

notice tells you that your landlord intends to begin proceedings for possession of the property identified

It might be considered splitting hairs but there is a difference. We see so much misinformation that can be confusing or misleading that correct terms should be used, especially when the OP might already be some way from correct process.

wackyjoe332

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

I'm going to throw an "out there" comment.
I get the impression that the tenants aren't in any way being a problem to you - in fact, they want to get evicted properly.

If you're sure you got a GSC back in 2017, have you asked them if they have a copy?
As a tenant, I always kept the copies given to me of the GSC.

Tenants had months to look for another accommodation why can’t they just leave if there not being a problem? Does every tenant want landlords to evict them every time they need to move. 

wackyjoe332

theartfullodger said:

Were you named as landlord on original agent created tenancy? (Or was it a "guaranteed rent" scheme/scam? )

Yes on the original tenancy it said my name and then C/O ; ( letting agent details ) 

wackyjoe332

saajan_12 said:

wackyjoe332 said:

Thanks for the responses, they are great Ok here's a bullet point of the scenario as requested. 

1- Tenant moved in via letting agent - 12/06/2017 

2- Letting agent passed away and agency closed 01-12-2018 

3- I gave the current tenant a AST from 14-12-2018 and has not been renewed since.

4- April 2024, I decide I want to renovate the flat , new kitchen, bathroom, doors, windows and a complete new roof and move into the property myself, and I issued them a section 21 notice on 1st May 24.

5- When I researched how to issue a section 21, it stated we needed a GSC with the current tenancy and for any prev tenancies. I did not have a copy of the GSC from 2017 so I decided if I create a new tenancy and state the tenants have only been here for 1 year and provide the GSC relevant to this to submit the sec 21 , I would not need to show all previous ones. , hence I 'regretfully' created a new AST backdated from  Feb 23 - Feb 24 and submit this with the GSC for that period.

6- The tenant agreed as they wanted a council property and wanted to be given section 21,  but when the defence form came they filled it out and said everything I wrote about their tenancies was incorrect and they been there since 2017 after getting advice from the local housing officer. 

7- The court stated that the dates of what I wrote and the tenant defence form did not match and wanted to hold a hearing in August. Now section 21 will clearly not work either way now regardless of going to the hearing as I wont be able to get all the GSC since 2017, especially the one the letting agent provided in 2017 as I dont know who he used. 

8-  Do I need to attend the court hearing, they will 99% reject the claim if no GSC is provided I guess? Is it worth avoiding it and then submit a section 8 a few weeks after? 

9-  The decisions I made above, and to not seek legal help was my mistake , I want to find any solution now to get the tenants out. Section 21 has completely failed now, so if I can go down the section 8 route, what steps do I need to take and what grounds do I submit it on.

All help is very much appreciated, thanks for the replies! 

Not necessarily. You would need to be honest on what the actual dates were ie 2017. No need to mention the GSC unless they actually ask for it. There's 82 requirements, they don't routinely examine each one, just if there's a question raised about it. 

Alternatively if you're not going to attend the hearing then no point on losing the time.. withdraw the claim and send the tenant the new notice now. You could send both S21 (with correct dates) and S8 (ground 1) at the same time, to give yourself a fallback. 

This seems like the best plan. Do you know how I will have to withdraw the claim? Also would I serve section 8 under the original tenancy and not the new one I created ? 

What documents are needed for a valid section 8 under grounds 1

thanks 

newsgroupmonkey_

wackyjoe332 said:

newsgroupmonkey_ said:

I'm going to throw an "out there" comment.
I get the impression that the tenants aren't in any way being a problem to you - in fact, they want to get evicted properly.

If you're sure you got a GSC back in 2017, have you asked them if they have a copy?
As a tenant, I always kept the copies given to me of the GSC.

Tenants had months to look for another accommodation why can’t they just leave if there not being a problem? Does every tenant want landlords to evict them every time they need to move. 

Because they won't get council accommodation that way. People play the system to get a council flat.
It doesn't always work out, because they could end up in a B&B or homeless hostel.