Tenant not leaving, Failed section 21, Court date

wackyjoe332

Long story short -  Tenant been living at my flat since 2017 where a agency put them in, the agency owner died in 2019 so we drew up  new AST for them. 

Fast forward 2024, we served a section 21 notice, bare in mind its 2 months, I gave them 2 extra months notice as they have been there a long time. They explained they want a council house and wanted to be evicted through court. 

I applied using accelerated procedure etc, but I gave them a new tenancy dated Feb 2023 - Feb 2024 for the purpose of the eviction order and did not declare any previous tenancies. Initially they agreed this was fine, but when the court sent them the defence form to complete, they wrote that they have been there since 2017 and the tenancy I gave in the claim was wrong ( Which in a way it was, but it was only to get them evicted quicker ). Now the court has held a hearing in August for me to explain why the dates are wrong. Will I need to get a lawyer , what will the court say to the wrong tenancies and dates? 

I also not able to locate the GSC starting from 2017 due to lost paperwork or different engineers used, what will be a way round this. 

is my section 21 now going to be invalid, what other options do I have? I have read about the section 8- I am initianally going to renovate the flat to live in it myself so could this be a section 8 ground? Any help will be appreciated, sorry for jumbled explanations

Mr.Generous

Have they asked for the gas safe from 2017?  If so contact the company who did it for a copy I guess, or what about an email trail - do you send a copy to tenant after the check? Any messages arranging visit? last resort proof of payment to the engineer?

As for the dates it's not clear enough what you mean, set out in bullet points what happened, when and why.

_Penny_Dreadful

wackyjoe332 said:

Long story short -  Tenant been living at my flat since 2017 where a agency put them in, the agency owner died in 2019 so we drew up  new AST for them. 

Fast forward 2024, we served a section 21 notice, bare in mind its 2 months, I gave them 2 extra months notice as they have been there a long time. They explained they want a council house and wanted to be evicted through court. 

I applied using accelerated procedure etc, but I gave them a new tenancy dated Feb 2023 - Feb 2024 for the purpose of the eviction order and did not declare any previous tenancies. Initially they agreed this was fine, but when the court sent them the defence form to complete, they wrote that they have been there since 2017 and the tenancy I gave in the claim was wrong ( Which in a way it was, but it was only to get them evicted quicker ). Now the court has held a hearing in August for me to explain why the dates are wrong. Will I need to get a lawyer , what will the court say to the wrong tenancies and dates? 

I also not able to locate the GSC starting from 2017 due to lost paperwork or different engineers used, what will be a way round this. 

is my section 21 now going to be invalid, what other options do I have? I have read about the section 8- I am initianally going to renovate the flat to live in it myself so could this be a section 8 ground? Any help will be appreciated, sorry for jumbled explanations

There was no requirement to issue a new tenancy agreement when the letting agent passed away.

A section 21 is two months notice that you might go to court to get a possession order, not that the tenants must leave.  As the tenants are angling after social housing you could end up having to see this all the way through to bailiffs.

Why did you issue a new tenancy agreement starting [insert day] February 2023?  When did you issue it?  That is not a requirement for getting a possession order.  How did you think it would get the tenants evicted quicker?  As the tenants have lived there since 2017 the date you put on form was not, "in a way wrong," it was completely wrong.  What explanation are you going to give the court next month as nothing you've written so far makes sense.

If you cannot find or prove that a current gas safety certificate was served to the tenants at the commencement of the original tenancy then it's possible that you will never be able to serve a valid section 21 notice, it's a legal grey area.  What about all the other PI you need to have served e.g. How to Rent booklet?

What do you mean by renovate? A lick of paint and some new carpets or more substantial work that involves knocking down walls?  Ground 6 is a mandatory ground for eviction but it requires the intended work to be such that it cannot reasonably be carried out without the tenant giving up possession of the dwelling-house. 

Ground 1 might be a possibility if you meet the conditions below.

Not later than the beginning of the tenancy the landlord gave notice in writing to the tenant that possession might be recovered on this ground or the court is of the opinion that it is just and equitable to dispense with the requirement of notice and (in either case)—

(a)at some time before the beginning of the tenancy, the landlord who is seeking possession or, in the case of joint landlords seeking possession, at least one of them occupied the dwelling-house as his only or principal home; or

(b)the landlord who is seeking possession or, in the case of joint landlords seeking possession, at least one of them requires the dwelling-house as his, his spouse’s or his civil partner's only or principal home and neither the landlord (or, in the case of joint landlords, any one of them) nor any other person who, as landlord, derived title under the landlord who gave the notice mentioned above acquired the reversion on the tenancy for money or money’s worth.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/schedule/2

RHemmings

It appears that it will make a difference whether the Gas Safety Certificate pre-dates the tenancy, or if there was no GSC when the tenancy started and you obtained one in hindsight. What is the situation? 

https://coodes.co.uk/2023/04/serving-a-section-21-importance-of-gas-safety-certificates/

Note: this may only be important if you can evidence that there was a GSC. 

Zoe02

The council gets involved at bailiff’s stage. Mine left on the date of the bailiff date. Might just be put in a temporary accommodation but their problem. Better to be honest with the court documents because some tenants are ready for a full game and delay things, get an eviction specialist involved but the dates will come up. Mine did not involve court date was also accelerated. As far as you have all your paperwork in order and if you don’t take the steps to make sure all documents in order such as having gas safety etc.

When paperwork not in order maybe s8 would be a better option in this case.

saajan_12

wackyjoe332 said:

Long story short -  Tenant been living at my flat since 2017 where a agency put them in, the agency owner died in 2019 so we drew up  new AST for them. - could have just let it continue rolling, but ok, you have a new fixed term from 2019. The full tenancy still ran from move in ie 2017. 

Fast forward 2024, we served a section 21 notice, bare in mind its 2 months, I gave them 2 extra months notice as they have been there a long time. They explained they want a council house and wanted to be evicted through court. - when exactly? 

I applied using accelerated procedure etc, but I gave them a new tenancy dated Feb 2023 - Feb 2024 for the purpose of the eviction order and did not declare any previous tenancies. - why?? This is just a new fixed term again so pointless, and your S21 notice should have stated the correct dates of when the TENANCY started. Within a tenancy you can have fixed terms and periods of rolling. 

Initially they agreed this was fine, but when the court sent them the defence form to complete, they wrote that they have been there since 2017 and the tenancy I gave in the claim was wrong ( Which in a way it was, but it was only to get them evicted quicker ). Now the court has held a hearing in August for me to explain why the dates are wrong. Will I need to get a lawyer , what will the court say to the wrong tenancies and dates? - You tell the court honestly that you incorrectly put the date of the last fixed term but they are correct that the tenancy started from 2017 and apologise. No more. Don't get into the GSCs unless asked. 

The court will decide whether to let the possession proceed, whether to ask for proof of any of the documents, or whether to reject outright. If the latter, then you'll need to start again with a new S21 stating the correct dates, wait another 2 months, apply for another possession order etc. 

I also not able to locate the GSC starting from 2017 due to lost paperwork or different engineers used, what will be a way round this. - is anyone actually claiming that there was no GSC? They don't automatically ask you to prove every step, there's many other things you should have done too eg EPC, deposit protection, attended repairs etc.. if there's a question then they may ask for proof. 
If they do ask, then you need to find it - contact the companies used, search your records, etc. 

is my section 21 now going to be invalid, what other options do I have? I have read about the section 8- I am initianally going to renovate the flat to live in it myself so could this be a section 8 ground? Any help will be appreciated, sorry for jumbled explanations - you'd still need to start again at the notice stage and then go back to court. 

Comments in line.. seems you've tried to take short cuts and ended up making things worse. At this stage just correct any prior statements at the hearing with the actual start date, don't get into other detail. The court will decide what path to go down - eg proceed, ask for proof or reject.

If rejected, you will need to start again with notice and can review at that stage which notice is best. Section 8 Ground 1 is also another 2 months, so no better than the Section 21. While it may have fewer hoops to jump through, it creates different ones

Millsandovis

Was there no GSC before 2023 and that’s why the new tenancy was issued? 

propertyrental

Have you been self-managing since the agent died? Given the level of knowledge required and displayed, this was a mistake.

What advice/research did you get before serving the S21?

Nothing to add to the comments by others above.

Probably worth checking the 83 Qs in this flowchart so you are prepared for any other challenges to the S21

https://nearlylegal.co.uk/section-21-flowchart/

wackyjoe332

Thanks for the responses, they are great Ok here's a bullet point of the scenario as requested. 

1- Tenant moved in via letting agent - 12/06/2017 

2- Letting agent passed away and agency closed 01-12-2018 

3- I gave the current tenant a AST from 14-12-2018 and has not been renewed since.

4- April 2024, I decide I want to renovate the flat , new kitchen, bathroom, doors, windows and a complete new roof and move into the property myself, and I issued them a section 21 notice on 1st May 24.

5- When I researched how to issue a section 21, it stated we needed a GSC with the current tenancy and for any prev tenancies. I did not have a copy of the GSC from 2017 so I decided if I create a new tenancy and state the tenants have only been here for 1 year and provide the GSC relevant to this to submit the sec 21 , I would not need to show all previous ones. , hence I 'regretfully' created a new AST backdated from  Feb 23 - Feb 24 and submit this with the GSC for that period.

6- The tenant agreed as they wanted a council property and wanted to be given section 21,  but when the defence form came they filled it out and said everything I wrote about their tenancies was incorrect and they been there since 2017 after getting advice from the local housing officer. 

7- The court stated that the dates of what I wrote and the tenant defence form did not match and wanted to hold a hearing in August. Now section 21 will clearly not work either way now regardless of going to the hearing as I wont be able to get all the GSC since 2017, especially the one the letting agent provided in 2017 as I dont know who he used. 

8-  Do I need to attend the court hearing, they will 99% reject the claim if no GSC is provided I guess? Is it worth avoiding it and then submit a section 8 a few weeks after? 

9-  The decisions I made above, and to not seek legal help was my mistake , I want to find any solution now to get the tenants out. Section 21 has completely failed now, so if I can go down the section 8 route, what steps do I need to take and what grounds do I submit it on.

All help is very much appreciated, thanks for the replies! 

wackyjoe332

I just want them out, whatever route I am able to take and should take please advise

Tiglet2

A landlord can evict a tenant using a Section 8 notice if the tenant has broken the terms of the tenancy agreement  This could include reasons such as rent arrears, damage to the property or causing a nuisance.  The landlord must specify the grounds for eviction in the notice and may need to prove these grounds in court.  Have the tenants broken the terms of the tenancy agreement?