£50 in the bin quite literally

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Undervalued said: Everybody wants it NOW, at the lowest price, delivered by a faultless service that charge the square root of not a lot!

Not me, I stopped buying stuff on a whim a long time ago, saves a fortune and there's less rubbish cluttering up the house, I do however except what I order to be delivered to the address on the order, not to a shop, not to a neighbour and not some random gate by a field (as happens more often than you might expect) or indeed dumped in a bin as per the OP. 

Also do my best to buy from smaller retailers or private sellers on eBay picking those who state Royal Mail in the listing.

Undervalued said:

It is part and parcel (pun intended!) of their service. If it is not to your satisfaction choose a supplier that uses a delivery service you are happy with, if such exists, and expect to pay rather more.

Only available from one supplier, DPD is the only option, waited 6 months for delivery, retailer profits are a couple of billion of a year, DPD profits aren't bad either £300 million on £1.5 billion turnover, massive companies cornering the market and then driving down service for profit whilst preventing competition due to scale and people think it's good because it's convenient, which it isn't when you have to drive to the shop and pick the parcel up..... 

screech_78

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

I mentioned this on another thread before but had a case that went to small claims court and we defended. I can’t remember the exact item but it was high value and delivered by DPD. Customer had followed the link in delivery notification text and asked for parcel to be left “behind back gate”. Customer wasn’t in and DPD did as requested. Customer got home and advised no parcel there and assumed it had been stolen. 

We refused a refund on the basis that customer asked for it to be left there. Customer went down the small claims court route, we defended as our solicitors thought there was a 75% chance of us winning and customer lost. We had also went to DPD to include in our defence and they provided evidence that customer had asked for parcels to be left there on at least a few more occasions (parcels from other retailers). Judge said he couldn’t make an accurate decision on whether parcel was stolen or not, but based on this customer continually asking for parcels to be left there, they clearly thought it was a safe place. He said if customer hadn’t asked for it to be left there, he may have made a different decision. 

Not relevant to the OP as they didn’t ask for the parcel to be left in their bin, but thought I’d bring it up. 

I know you don't know but it would be interesting to see what argument the customer used to make their claim, if they argued passing of risk as quoted, Section 31 paragraph 1(k)  (Liability that cannot be excluded or restricted; passing of risk) whilst pointing out DPD's policy of dropping parcels off at random shops if no one is home pressuring customers to nominate a safe place with a liability excluded that the retailer isn't permitted to exclude, perhaps a case could be decided the other way? 

I’m sure there was a previous thread (that I can’t find, sorry!) where I brought up this one and if memory serves me right, passing of risk was never mentioned. I think there was however, a feeling from everyone that this customer was trying it on. 

With regard to DPD, I’ve never had a parcel taken to a shop. They’ll always leave it somewhere or deliver to a neighbour. And considering you receive a text with a 1 hour time slot and a link to choose a safe place, a neighbour to deliver to or the option to rearrange for another day, I don’t think they can do kuch
more. They’re one of the better couriers and the most expensive for a retailer to use. We only use them for high value items or when a customer pays for next day delivery. 

RefluentBeans

Couriers can’t do right. There’s two camps of people on this thread (and I’d say largely shared across the country). One side thinks it should be a system where the parcel companies have to physically hand it to someone. This opens up a lot of issues (the increased cost, what to do when someone isn’t in but their partner, parents, or house mates are - if you haven’t specifically said to the retailer to release it to someone else and named them, then the courier company can’t hand it to anyone but you). 

The other side thinks that the general system of safe places, whilst not perfect, makes life a lot more convenient for everyone.

In reality - this should depend on the parcel. I get a bag of coffee beans delivered every month. I don’t particularly want to have to use a day of annual leave every month for the courier m to drop it off to me. But I would want the courier to hand me a brand new MacBook, and not leave it in my porch. 

If a business uses Evri the reason they use them is because of the money saving. If people other services (Royal Mail, DPD, ParcelForce, Yodel) a large part of that is the money or the success rates these companies have. Luckily, parcels going missing make up a tiny tiny percentage of all parcels. And when a parcel does go missing it is unlikely that this will make the courier company nervous about losing business. There does need to be more transparency about when the risk transfers as the law is very outdated. And given most parcels probably don’t comply with this law anymore, the law needs to be modernised. It’s not consumer protection if it doesn’t protect consumers. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

screech_78 said:

With regard to DPD, I’ve never had a parcel taken to a shop. They’ll always leave it somewhere or deliver to a neighbour. And considering you receive a text with a 1 hour time slot and a link to choose a safe place, a neighbour to deliver to or the option to rearrange for another day, I don’t think they can do kuch
more. They’re one of the better couriers and the most expensive for a retailer to use. We only use them for high value items or when a customer pays for next day delivery. 

Only had it happen once, driver pulled up at the gate, as I walked out the door he drove off, checked the tracking and it said the parcel was on it's way to Co op. Fortunately the depot answered the phone and had the driver bring it the next day.

What irked me was they claimed it was good for the environment for me to drive 20 miles for 1 parcel rather than the driver who does the round every day to swing by the house again. 

I noticed on one of the emails or tracking recently it said about 1 delivery attempt and if not successful it'll go to a shop which if you aren't home really backs you into a corner of either clicking a box to say you accept liability at the safe place or going to the shop. 

I think what annoys me most about the couriers is their lack of honesty about their failures, the PDA doesn't have an option for "out of time", "can't find address" "relief driver running around like a headless chicken please bear with us" instead you get "sorry we missed you", missed me? You wasn't even here!  

DPD a month ago, "Your parcel has been delivered and received by Smith" with a picture of it on top of a gate post half a mile from the house. 

One DPD parcel was delivered, unbeknown to me at the time, to the street around the corner, called the depot three times and asked for GPS data or for them to ask the driver, got the usual fob off with "investigating" and only found the parcel as my wife's work colleague saw a post of Facebook asking if anyone knew who the parcel was for (I mean it has an address label on but yeah). 

DPD ram the vans and you get parcels that are squashed, with holes in and few over the years with dusty boot prints. I know they are often cited as good but I really don't rate them at all based on personal experience. 

When the couriers are good they are good, when they bad they seem really bad. 

screech_78 said:

I’m sure there was a previous thread (that I can’t find, sorry!) where I brought up this one and if memory serves me right, passing of risk was never mentioned. I think there was however, a feeling from everyone that this customer was trying it on. 

I do appreciate this is an issue and it is difficult for retailers, the advances in technology such as photos being common, GPS tracking on vans and PDAs, better access to alter preferences via websites and apps should all help make most deliveries more successful reducing the overall lose from theft or fraud. 

When Royal Mail started photos on Tracked the postman told me it was support big accounts like Very to help cut down on false non-receipt claims. 

Sadly there are too many dishonest people but we live in a hollow society without values which is perpetuated by the biggest businesses in the world to continue amassing profit.

A happy, mentally healthy, content society simply would not have the desire to consume to the excess we currently do but where would the profit be in that?

Reap what you sow in a way but that's philosophy rather than consumer rights    

username

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I think what annoys me most about the couriers is their lack of honesty about their failures, the PDA doesn't have an option for "out of time", "can't find address" "relief driver running around like a headless chicken please bear with us" instead you get "sorry we missed you", missed me? You wasn't even here!  

Part of the problem is the way these couriers are set up, a lot are paid by the piece and self-employed, thus meaning there is little in the way of employment security and rights, and the culture to dispense of parcels in any which way possible is rife, from leaving them in doorsteps, bins etc.

No doubt they are also ruthlessly monitored for performance (or do not care), and that is why they lie on the reasons as no doubt a certain amount of failures shall preclude them from any bonus/incentive despite the factor being outside of their control.

There is also the element as well of the volume of parcels - I do not understand why the OP ordered the items when they knew they weren't going to be in for a number of days. There is finite capacity in all parts of the network and a courier can't be expected to have parcels for delivery riding around in the back of the van for days on end.

Hoenir

username said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I think what annoys me most about the couriers is their lack of honesty about their failures, the PDA doesn't have an option for "out of time", "can't find address" "relief driver running around like a headless chicken please bear with us" instead you get "sorry we missed you", missed me? You wasn't even here!  

There is also the element as well of the volume of parcels - I do not understand why the OP ordered the items when they knew they weren't going to be in for a number of days. There is finite capacity in all parts of the network and a courier can't be expected to have parcels for delivery riding around in the back of the van for days on end.

The OP has never returned to clarify why they never responded to Evri's communications. Having had a parcel delivered by them the other day there's plenty of warning and adequate options. Evri (i.e. Hermes) was not my favourite courier in the past. In the last 18 months we've had the same lady on the round. She's diligent and follows instructions. So I'm slowly warming to them as an organisation.  As with DPD. They are becoming professional. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

username said:

Part of the problem is the way these couriers are set up, a lot are paid by the piece and self-employed, thus meaning there is little in the way of employment security and rights, and the culture to dispense of parcels in any which way possible is rife, from leaving them in doorsteps, bins etc.

No doubt they are also ruthlessly monitored for performance (or do not care), and that is why they lie on the reasons as no doubt a certain amount of failures shall preclude them from any bonus/incentive despite the factor being outside of their control.

Preaching to the choir I think the market should be regulated to improve conditions for workers and service for customers but alas it seems instead the main decent provider (Royal Mail) is being dragged down to the level of the others.