Sold Campervan buyer wants money back

HHarry

Mutton_Geoff said:

GrubbyGirl_2 said:

If he is crazy enough to try and take you to court again I think it's time for you to put in a counter claim.  Work out how much time you have taken up in responding to him, preparing your case and attending court (count that as a full day and include your 3rd attendance).  Work out how many hours then cost that up at £12.21 (Minimum wage) add in any travel costs and any other expenses (printing, postage etc) then add a notional £100 for your distress.

Make sure you itemise everything to show you are being very reasonable and this will get the judge far more likely to award it.  You'll also get the cost of filling your counter claim.  If he fails to turn up again he'll get a summary judgement.

It's about time he was taught a lesson.

This is the UK, not USA. A counterclaim must be submitted at the same time as the original defence and is limited to out of pocket expenses.

You can't claim any form of compensation for distress etc.

 This is the norm - but in cases of unreasonable behaviour awards can be made against either party.  Some Defendants on the Parking Charges board have been awarded £18/hr for the time taken to deal with PPC’s who have acted ‘unreasonably’.

 I’d be sticking in a counter-claim on that basis.

Mutton_Geoff

mandy1955 said:

I haven't replied to him yet

Replying should not even be on your radar. I suggest you proactively report him to the police for harassment, don't ask them for an opinion.

Goudy

elsien said:

I seriously wouldn’t bother replying to him. The more you engage the more likely he is to carry on messaging you. 

Simply wait and see if he follows through with an attempt at any formal action.

This is what you need to do.

Not matter what messages they send you, do not engage with them.

If they are stupid enough, which it appears they are, they will get frustrated and perhaps make more stupid mistakes and start sending you some unpleasant messages. That's when you take those messages to the Police.

If you've been replying and engaging with them from the start, it may blur the lines of harassment.

They have tried the court route twice and failed miserably because of their own incompetence.
Don't sweat on a third attempt, just get on with your life. 

Mutton_Geoff

OK, one more go. In my opinion, the boundary has already been crossed.

The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 indicates that someone’s actions amount to harassment when they make the victim feel distressed, humiliated, threatened or fearful of further violence. The main goal of harassment is to persuade victims either not to do something that they are entitled or required to do or to do something that they are not obliged to do. Actions listed under the Protection from Harassment Act include, but are not limited to:

phone calls

letters

emails

visits

stalking

verbal abuse of any kind, including on social media

threats

damage to property

bodily harm[2].

Such actions amount to harassment when they occur more than once.

https://www.local.gov.uk/definition-harassment-abuse-and-intimidation

You do not have to suffer any more, you have sufficient evidence to make a formal complaint for the police to investigate.

mandy1955

Thank you all, great advice as ever.  I haven't replied or responded in any way and I don't intend to.  I spent a whole year stressing about his court action and when he didn't turn up for the first time it piled on even more worry and another three month wait to go back to court.   For him to fail to attend a second time was just clearly showing his lack of respect to the court system. I pretty much know he'll carry out his threat to reinstate the case although I thought there was a time limit, I'm not sure how it works.  I'm definitely not going to spend every day worrying again.  

teaselMay

Even if he'd bought from a dealer he'd have no grounds to complain at the MOT a year later. My van was from a dealer and, as you'd pretty much expect from an older vehicle, had a bit of an oil leak needing a half shaft seal and bearing about 6 months later, didn't even cross my mind to go back and complain to the van centre! 

I would speak to the police though Mandy, he's playing with you, he must know he has no leg to stand on in this but he knows he can do you harm none the less.

prowla

mandy1955 said:

Thank you all, great advice as ever.  I haven't replied or responded in any way and I don't intend to.  I spent a whole year stressing about his court action and when he didn't turn up for the first time it piled on even more worry and another three month wait to go back to court.   For him to fail to attend a second time was just clearly showing his lack of respect to the court system. I pretty much know he'll carry out his threat to reinstate the case although I thought there was a time limit, I'm not sure how it works.  I'm definitely not going to spend every day worrying again.  

You do need to go through the motions if they raise another case, though; in case they do turn up.

Mutton_Geoff

prowla said:

You do need to go through the motions if they raise another case, though; in case they do turn up.

Those motions are to nip it in the bud now, not wait for the potentially very stressful day when another court claim arrives in the post.

To qualify my previous suggestions, I used to be in the motor trade, I have undertaken several courses on legal aspects of harassment and how to avoid them and also have been interviewed by the police on a (spurious) charge of harassment where, with the duty solicitor, I was able to satisfy the police that there was no case to answer.

ciderboy2009

If he is silly enough to issue another claim then you can defend it based on the fact that this case has already been heard under case number xxxx at yyy County Court which was struck out by District Judge zzz on whatever date it was.

I would also point out that the Claimant has now owned the van for over a year.

I wouldn't attempt going down the vexatious litigant route - this will just delay things.  I would, however, mention that you will be requesting that your costs of any hearing should be paid by the Claimant.

At the end of the day I would expect the claim to be struck out once you have filed your defence.

Okell

mandy1955 said:

Hi all.   Well, almost a year to the day since I sold my van, yesterday I got a message from the buyer saying its failed its MOT and its costing him over £1,000 so he's taking me back to court and is Including the original complaint regarding the cam belt.   He says he's contacting the court ombudsman regarding the first claim...

Ignore him.

He won't get anywhere complaining to either HMCTS or to the Parliamentary Ombudsman as he never bothered to turn up to either (or was it three?) hearing*.

If he tries to start to issue a second claim in respect of the original cam belt complaint then you have the legal defence of "res judicata" - which basically means that the case has already been litigated and was decided in your favour.  (The only way he could resurrect the original claim would be to try to have the judgment set aside but (1) I don't see what grounds he could have for that; (2) you would get notification if he was trying to do that; and (3) I'm not sure if he might be time barred from doing that(?). )

If he issues a second claim in respect of the most recent MOT fails then, as others have said, those fails are exactly what you'd expect from a 28 year old vehicle like that.  Also it is over a year since you sold it to him, so he would have to prove that those faults were present when you sold it to him and that they haven't developed since then in his possession.  How could he do that?


*Also I think you can only complain to HMCTS/the Parliamentary Ombudsman about problems with the administration of the courts and not about court decisions - for obvious reasons.  If he wasn't happy with the decision he should have appealed against it within the appropriate time limit.