ECP DCB LEGAL court claim 2025

Harmonyguru

Thank you @Umkomaas , car park location is Five Ways Birmingham, Five Ways Entertainment Centre, Tennant St, Birmingham B15 1DA.

Currently doing some digging but no luck yet. Am I correct in saying that I should definitely pursue this BEFORE making my POPLA appeal?

Harmonyguru

fisherjim said:

So what time did you actually enter the car park 17:55 or 22:38?

This whole sorry thing shows why ANPR is not fit for purpose!

I entered at 17:55 but then when I entered my VRN upon trying to leave it told me I had entered at 22:38 with no way of changing this. The number provided by Euro Car Parks just went to an automated message. A complete mess by the operators.

Harmonyguru

Umkomaas said:

Gr1pr said:

Fruitcake and Umkomaas regularly post that advice on here in numerous threads

Its never pointless to contact the landowner 

The advice above by Ldast should be followed too, same as the advice over on the ftla parking forum 

SOME IDEAS FOR DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

I've found a website for 'Five Ways Entertainment Centre' and have sent an email requesting information on the property landowner. No number though but I will keep digging. Once I do get in touch with a landowner, is it simply a case of just stating my case and asking that they remove the ticket? If they agree how can I ensure I get proof of this?

Umkomaas

Harmonyguru said:

Umkomaas said:

Gr1pr said:

Fruitcake and Umkomaas regularly post that advice on here in numerous threads

Its never pointless to contact the landowner 

The advice above by Ldast should be followed too, same as the advice over on the ftla parking forum 

SOME IDEAS FOR DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

I've found a website for 'Five Ways Entertainment Centre' and have sent an email requesting information on the property landowner. No number though but I will keep digging. Once I do get in touch with a landowner, is it simply a case of just stating my case and asking that they remove the ticket? If they agree how can I ensure I get proof of this?

Tell them that you were a legit customer, you visited x, y, z retail outlets, you spent £x, send copy of receipts/bank/cc statements as proof.

Do everything via email. Their response confirming the cancellation will be proof enough. It could work for you, but it won't be automatic, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. 

Harmonyguru

OKAY! Is this important... looking at my PCN again the address on the back is DIFFERENT to that of the address on Google Maps. My PCN has it as 60 bishopsgate street, fiveways, birmingham b15 1db. This is the car park OPPOSITE the one I parked in. Before anyone asks, I 100% paid for parking in the correct car park. Both are operated by Euro Car Parks. Does this help my case?

Harmonyguru

Umkomaas said:

Harmonyguru said:

Umkomaas said:

Gr1pr said:

Fruitcake and Umkomaas regularly post that advice on here in numerous threads

Its never pointless to contact the landowner 

The advice above by Ldast should be followed too, same as the advice over on the ftla parking forum 

SOME IDEAS FOR DETERMINING WHO OWNS THE LAND 

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

I've found a website for 'Five Ways Entertainment Centre' and have sent an email requesting information on the property landowner. No number though but I will keep digging. Once I do get in touch with a landowner, is it simply a case of just stating my case and asking that they remove the ticket? If they agree how can I ensure I get proof of this?

Tell them that you were a legit customer, you visited x, y, z retail outlets, you spent £x, send copy of receipts/bank/cc statements as proof.

Do everything via email. Their response confirming the cancellation will be proof enough. It could work for you, but it won't be automatic, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. 

What is the approach if I didn't use any of their services other than the car park?

prowla

Did the machine have an option to call an assistant?

If so, then doing so and doing what they say means you have followed the parking co's instructions and they'd not have a leg to stand on.

(That advice is useless after the event for this one, but I do know folks read these threads.)

LDast

The address on the NtK is important. If there is any ambiguity in identifying the relevant land then the NtK is not PoFA compliant which would mean that the keeper is not liable. The driver is always liable.

fisherjim

Harmonyguru said:

fisherjim said:

So what time did you actually enter the car park 17:55 or 22:38?

This whole sorry thing shows why ANPR is not fit for purpose!

I entered at 17:55 but then when I entered my VRN upon trying to leave it told me I had entered at 22:38 with no way of changing this. The number provided by Euro Car Parks just went to an automated message. A complete mess by the operators.

So it looks quite obvious (and you have documented proof) that the pay machine and the ANPR system clearly had a synchronisation problem at some stage.

ANPR used in car parks is known to have problems authorities are prohibited from using it in car parks, and a PPC put this in black and white to a poster on here recently, listing some of the reasons. 

The BPA have also stated in the past that it is fallible, and even official police authorised equipment is only 95% reliable.

Harmonyguru

prowla said:

Did the machine have an option to call an assistant?

If so, then doing so and doing what they say means you have followed the parking co's instructions and they'd not have a leg to stand on.

(That advice is useless after the event for this one, but I do know folks read these threads.)

The only number provided was on the parking receipt which only offered an automated message with no option to even leave a message. I have referenced this in my appeal below:

Referring to the case in question, the driver attempted to contact the operator for support upon the machine's failure. Please refer to Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 2 to see that Euro Car Parks signage and receipt provide a number 020 7563 3000. Within the small print ‘IMPORTANT NOTICES’ in Exhibit 1 they note that this number is used ‘for all enquires’. The number provided does not provide an option to speak to an operator or even leave a message so therefore there was no reasonable way for the driver to resolve this error at the time of visiting the car park.