Parking Charge Notice: Parkingeye, Sainsburys Eltham

busymerchbee73

Devastated to have 2 parking charges in the month of April. Hoping May will be a better month!

This charge is from ParkingEye, and I'm afraid I already appealed without knowing about MSE and all the brilliant help here. 

Hoping that I can get some advice, but I have cocked up.  Here's the background:-

• parked and realised I didn't have cash or cards.  Downloaded PayByPhone app, but it took ages as I had reduced service in this carpark.
• once downloaded, I input details into the app, went to complete, and got the circular loading sign
• decided to pop into the shop and presumed this would complete eventually, but took a screenshot of the app with the circular loading just in case - it shows time, date and the Sainsburys Eltham car park code
• only popped in for fresh turmeric, which they didn't have, so I didn't end up purchasing anything!!!!  I was only 8 minutes in the shop

Received PCN, and without knowing, I appealed immediately, and without knowing better, I didn't admit to being the driver specifically, but I certainly listed all of the above, fully implying that I was the driver.  I sent the screenshot of the attempted parking purchase in my appeal.

My appeal got rejected today.  I have since been in touch with Sainsburys but have had numerous replies from Sainsburys that they can't help.

Any advice please on what I could possibly do at this stage, even after the mistakes I have made.  And apologies for not knowing better!  I know this is a frustrating read!

Gr1pr

Post redacted pictures of both sides of the PCN and pictures of the signage if possible 

Post a redacted copy of the appeal and a redacted picture of the reply too, no personal details and redact the popla reference 

Are Sainsbury's the landowner or not. ?  Why can't they help ? What excuse was made ?

busymerchbee73

Many thanks Gr1pr for your kind help.

I don't have my original reply as I appealed online - just filled in the PE form.  I don't have pictures of signage either, but I saw signage and tried to pay for parking.

So, is POPLA my next stage for this?

ParkingEye rejects as follows: We have reviewed the details outlined in your appeal, but we are not in receipt of

sufficient evidence to confirm that the terms and conditions were not breached. Our records confirm that no parking was purchased on the date of the parking event, despite there being payment methods available.  We are writing to advise you that your recent appeal has been unsuccessful and that you have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.If you wish to have your case independently assessed, please be advised, there is an

independent appeals service (POPLA) which is available to motorists who have had an appeal rejected by a British Parking Association Approved Operator. Contact information and further information can be found enclosed. See also www.popla.co.uk  By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services (www.ombudsmanservices.

org/) provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent  to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.  Please note, if the Parking Charge was issued in Scotland/Northern Ireland, only the driver can appeal to POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals).

As a gesture of goodwill, we have extended the discount period for a further 14 days from the date of this correspondence. If you appeal to POPLA and your appeal is unsuccessful you will not be able to pay the discounted amount in settlement of the Parking Charge,and the full value of the charge will be outstanding.

Sainsburys reply with: the car park is run by Greenwich Enterprise Board on behalf of the Royal Borough of Greenwich, so you will need to reach out to Greenwich council for their assistance with your claim. Alternatively, as per your letter from Parkingeye you can seek independent third-party advice from Popla.  If the car park was owned by Sainsbury’s we would be in a position to able to review this matter, but as we don’t, we have no agreement in place with Parkingeye and  we will therefore be taking no further action in regard to this matter.

LDast

I see three PoFA failures in that NtK. However, as the OP may have already revealed themselves to be the keeper and driver, the point may be moot.

There is no invitation for the keeper to pay the charge as required under PoFA 9(2)(e)(ii). 

The requirements of PoFA 9(2)(b) have not been met in that there is no mention to the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full.

Additionally, there is ambiguity of the actual relevant land which is a breach of PoFA 9(2)(a). Having looked at GSV for the named location, there are at least two separate car parks on private land and the rest of "Passey Place" is not relevant land anyway.

Gr1pr

Its also clear that Sainsbury's are not the landowner, they said so, it may not be relevant land under POFA if the council own it. ?  Sainsbury's don't contract with Parking Eye, that was a red flag to my first reply, which is why I didn't think they were, having a shop there means nothing 

But if you outed the driver, POFA doesn't help you 

Coupon-mad

So, is POPLA my next stage for this?

No.  Complain to the actual firm that manages the site (NOT the Council and not Sains).

busymerchbee73

Thank you - do I use land registry to find out who manages the site? 

I've complained to Sainsbury's (no luck), and Greenwich Car Parking Services (someone at Sainsbury's forwarded my email to them).

Remember, in this instance, I've admitted to driving in my appeal to ParkingEye. 😣 (before I knew you guys existed).

I have been forwarded your email from Pete Brown at Sainsburys. 

While we have an excellent relationship with Sainsburys, Passey Place Car Park is a private car park and is not owned by Sainsburys. 

 

Unfortunately, we only have the authority to cancel PCNs when they have been issued incorrectly or in exceptional circumstances, so in this instance you would need to appeal directly to Parking Eye as there is nothing we can do. 

 

The rules of the car park are clearly displayed and we know from Parking Eye (who manage +4000 car parks across the UK) that our wait time allowances are some of the most generous in the Country (much longer than other car parks). 

We also have numerous ways in which to pay (which is not always the case with other car parks) at the 7 machines provided - cash, cards (including Amex), Apple Pay, Google Pay and the Pay by Phone App. 

 

Greenwich Car Parking Services Ltd

Coupon-mad

I wouldn't bother with POPLA, if payment never went through. There's nothing that POPLA can consider that would win.

I'd reply to Greenwich Car Parking Services Ltd as they ARE clearly the firm who run the place and can cancel these (because they said as much!) and tell them that this isn't about exceeding a wait time deliberately and there are 'exceptional circumstances'.  The app doesn't load well (in your case it failed altogether, unbeknown to you), so it is unsuitable for this car park to rely upon.

Attach the screenshot that shows that the app failed and tell them this was the problem and you are prepared to pay £12 - £15 to cover ParkingEye's very low 'template letter' admin costs plus the fee that the system wouldn't let you pay and the £2.50 that PEye paid the DVLA for your data.

Appeal to their better nature and ask them to liaise with PEye and see if they will accept £12-£15 as a goodwill gesture to resolve the dispute without litigation, given that offer has real value to ParkingEye who have to pay c£30 to POPLA to have an appeal case heard (win or lose) and you'd rather the matter was resolved amicably,

Coupon-mad

Use words like 'kindly' and 'please' 'amicably' and "goodwill gesture".

busymerchbee73

Amazing.  Thanks so much Coupon-mad.  What fantastic help you are.  I will try this.  So very grateful to you.

Coupon-mad

busymerchbee73 said:

Amazing.  Thanks so much Coupon-mad.  What fantastic help you are.  I will try this.  So very grateful to you.

No worries. Better than trying POPLA.

I'd be really grateful if you would urgently do this official Government survey and tell me if it is still open, which I think it is:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528490/official-dluhc-paid-research-have-you-ever-appealed-a-parking-charge-notice

...only fill in answers about this private PCN, and that your appeal failed and you didn't try POPLA, because they don't consider mitigating circumstances such as a payment app that fails to load, and they just toe the BPA line and blame the consumer.