Very pushy replacement energy meter calls

FlatFour

Hi all,

I wanted to post about a friend's experience with a VERY pushy and rude call about a replacement energy meter.

My friend rents, and has both Gas and Electric.  She had a call from someone claiming to represent her power company and, seconds into the call they're demanding personal details from her and telling her she MUST have a new meter fitted.  She pushed back at this - unknown caller asking for personal details - but the person was very pushy, saying she had no choice, she must have a replacement metre.  She did say, while a little flustered by the unexpected call, that she didn't want a Smart Meter, they said that's fine, she can just have a regular meter fitted.  She ended the call, but only after they told her they'd be coming in June to replace it!  No asking, just telling.  Totally out of order.

From some later digging, it turns out the call was legit, but far from professional, as the call was actually from a company contracted by the power company to phone around and tell people they MUST have a new meter fitted, and they cannot refuse.

Firstly:  this is darn rude, aggressive and bullying tactics especially as my friend is vulnerable and the power company know this.

Secondly: the house is RENTED, it's not hers and not her say at all I thought, yet the caller did not care.

Basically, they've forced an appointment on a vulnerable tenant against her will.  They call up, they do not identify themselves and are not prepared to even try, yet ask for personal information.  Personally, I'd have hung up right away if someone couldn't identify themselves to my satisfaction.  That's what my friend eventually did, but she was understandably flustered getting this call an greeted by immediate forceful "sales" technique.

She has since received a letter from the power company, finally verifying that this is legitimate.  However, their approach to this has been terrible.  A random cold-calling then demanding personal details and arranging an appointment despite being told no.

So, where do people stand these days regarding power meter replacements?  Surely the property OWNER is the one to make the decision?  Also, if a perfectly working Meter is present, can they force it to be changed?  Power companies (mine included) seem to be using the "your meter won't work with the new system and is out of date" excuse to swap even quite new meters.  The meters work perfectly fine.

We've had calls ourselves about "needing" a new meter, but it works just fine.  We supply meter reading as requested (about every month).  They've previously refused to fit a smart meter - we signed up for one years ago, which was a condition of the tariff apparently, but they simply never bothered to fit one.  We're no longer on such a tariff.

Note: where we are, we think they never fitted a smart meter due to very poor (black spot basically) mobile signal around here, so it'd not work.  Apparently some newer meters use their own system.  Someone mentioned to me that this uses the household's Wifi.  Well, they're not connecting their device into my secure Wifi, that's for sure.  I will not have devices outside of my control connected to my network.  Period.

Bit of a rant, sorry, but I was really annoyed that my friend - who's really not well at the moment - was put through this.

mr_stripey

In short - yes they (the supplier) can insist on a new meter.

It is "their" meter, not the householder.

They have a certifiable life and need to replaced at the end of that period.

Chances are any replacement will be a smart meter since non smart meters are not manufactured any longer (generally speaking)

There's not much to fear from a smart meter. Far as I know, it doesn't connect to wifi, and if it is in a poor signal area it will simply operate in dumb mode (thus you will have to send readings, just as you do know)

BarelySentientAI

FlatFour said:

So, where do people stand these days regarding power meter replacements?  Surely the property OWNER is the one to make the decision? 

No, the meter owner makes the decision.  It's theirs, not yours.

FlatFour said:

Also, if a perfectly working Meter is present, can they force it to be changed?  Power companies (mine included) seem to be using the "your meter won't work with the new system and is out of date" excuse to swap even quite new meters.  The meters work perfectly fine.

Yes, they can, and by the regulations they have to.

FlatFour said:

Someone mentioned to me that this uses the household's Wifi.  Well, they're not connecting their device into my secure Wifi, that's for sure.  I will not have devices outside of my control connected to my network.  Period.

"Someone" is wrong.  Nobody is connecting to your secure WiFi.

Phone call sounds irresponsibly pushy - and that should be dealt with - but for all the rest of it they are in the right and your fears are not.

dunstonh

Bit of a rant, sorry, but I was really annoyed that my friend - who's really not well at the moment - was put through this.

Sometimes people can be their own worst enemies.  i.e. creating hassle and frustrations for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

FlatFour

Thanks for the replies, appreciated.

So, when a person changes power provider, the existing meter becomes the property of the new provider automatically?  Our meter, for example, was fitted by an entirely different provider to the current one.  Indeed, it's likely been two or three providers since it was fitted.  They did an update to it - some little box next to the Meter - a couple of years ago, but they've never changed the actual meter.

Surely they still require permission to enter the premises from the property owner though?  Also, the tenant, must have some say when any such visit occurs?  Telling someone that you WILL be there on a certain day, irrespective of whether the tenant can be available or not isn't very accommodating.  I.e. they arrange a time mid-work day and expect you to take time off, no ability to chose a date and time.  That's not really acceptable.

Thanks for the clarification re: the Wifi, glad that was wrong as it sounded distinctly dodgy to me.  Lack of mobile signal has been given as a reason in the past for not fitting a smart meter though.

The silly thing for us is that we wanted a Smart Meter for ages, but they simply wouldn't to fit one after telling us previously that they would.  They were quite vague about why, however, it was suggested that it might be due to the lack of Mobile signal.  When we got Solar we expected one to be fitted then, but they still wouldn't.  While we do have a battery and use most of what we produce, we are of course losing out on potential feed-in tariffs.  When the solar was fitted, we did have a separate meter *just* for the Solar (so, generation, use, charge, battery use etc.) but it does not measure grid electric of course.  That meter is ours.

One final thing, part of the Warranty for the Solar Panels insists that any work that touches the install, is undertaken by the Solar provider.  I was concerned they'd consider a new meter - which will touch parts of the solar electrical install - would be considered such work, even if not directly to it.  I.e. will the person who fits a new Meter be knowledgeable about the impact the Solar stuff has on fitment?  Might this cause problems?

We were originally expecting a Smart Meter be fitted when we did all the forms with the power provider for the Solar install.  However, they still wouldn't, so everything was connected with the existing meter in place.  The Inverter does also monitor Grid power use and is set up to monitor feed-in etc. so they are connected.

We had planned to switch providers right away, as our current providers feed-in tariff was rubbish - like 80% lower than your typical offering - but I was worried that we'd switch, then the new provider wouldn't fit one for the same reason.

Note: now I think about it, two separate providers over the years (we switched a few years ago) have refused to fit a smart meter.  I first wanted a smart meter back in 2016/17 I think it was, friend had one fitted and I liked how he could monitor power usage "live" so to speak - it was quite eye-opening.  I can do the same now through the Solar App as is monitors everything, but back then, we didn't have Solar.

Personally speaking, I wanted a Smart Meter to be installed, as we were initially told it would be, long before we got the solar.  However, I'd fully expect to have some input on when that install takes place, not be *told* when they'll turn up without them asking if that works for us.

BarelySentientAI

FlatFour said:

So, when a person changes power provider, the existing meter becomes the property of the new provider automatically?  Our meter, for example, was fitted by an entirely different provider to the current one.  Indeed, it's likely been two or three providers since it was fitted.  They did an update to it - some little box next to the Meter - a couple of years ago, but they've never changed the actual meter.

Strange but true.  Even stranger on meters that have a supplier's branding on!  All managed, sometimes badly, through a massive database.

FlatFour said:

Surely they still require permission to enter the premises from the property owner though?  Also, the tenant, must have some say when any such visit occurs?  Telling someone that you WILL be there on a certain day, irrespective of whether the tenant can be available or not isn't very accommodating.  I.e. they arrange a time mid-work day and expect you to take time off, no ability to chose a date and time.  That's not really acceptable.

Permission or a court warrant to force access.  You're quite right though, it should be an appointment and not a diktat.

FlatFour said:

The silly thing for us is that we wanted a Smart Meter for ages, but they simply wouldn't to fit one after telling us previously that they would.  They were quite vague about why, however, it was suggested that it might be due to the lack of Mobile signal.  When we got Solar we expected one to be fitted then, but they still wouldn't.  While we do have a battery and use most of what we produce, we are of course losing out on potential feed-in tariffs.  When the solar was fitted, we did have a separate meter *just* for the Solar (so, generation, use, charge, battery use etc.) but it does not measure grid electric of course.  That meter is ours.

One final thing, part of the Warranty for the Solar Panels insists that any work that touches the install, is undertaken by the Solar provider.  I was concerned they'd consider a new meter - which will touch parts of the solar electrical install - would be considered such work, even if not directly to it.  I.e. will the person who fits a new Meter be knowledgeable about the impact the Solar stuff has on fitment?  Might this cause problems?

We were originally expecting a Smart Meter be fitted when we did all the forms with the power provider for the Solar install.  However, they still wouldn't, so everything was connected with the existing meter in place.  The Inverter does also monitor Grid power use and is set up to monitor feed-in etc. so they are connected.

Often happens - they turn up to fit one and then find that the space/signal/alignment of the planets isn't quite right and don't actually do it.

Shouldn't involve touching the solar install though as that would be connected into your consumer unit (perhaps via a few other things) not including the supplier's meter.  Everything for the solar is on your wiring.

wild666

As soon as the call ends press 1471 to get the number of the caller, Sometimes they withhold the number. Contact the supplier and ask them if they have had a call centre or one of their departments call to arrange a smart meter installation? Complain about how pushy they were and didn't give an option to say that a smart meter wasn't wanted at this time.
Some properties built pre 2010 have analogue meters and the meters could have a certified life of 35 years, though it's more often 15 to 20 years. 
I had smart meters installed to get free electric from BG every Sunday for three years from March 2015 to March 2018 and I really hit the free electric period.

dunstonh

Thanks for the clarification re: the Wifi, glad that was wrong as it sounded distinctly dodgy to me.  Lack of mobile signal has been given as a reason in the past for not fitting a smart meter though.

It was an issue in the past and for some people signal is still a problem.   Two attempts to get a smart meter installed in 2018 and 2020 failed due to lack of signal and conventional meters were installed on both occasions (both previous meters failed by having timers that went out of sync).    in 2023, a signal was possible and a smart meter was installed (just as the 2020 was starting to fail like the two previous).

Luckily, it meant we missed the SMETS1 and got a SMETS2.

FlatFour

wild666 said:

As soon as the call ends press 1471 to get the number of the caller, Sometimes they withhold the number. Contact the supplier and ask them if they have had a call centre or one of their departments call to arrange a smart meter installation? Complain about how pushy they were and didn't give an option to say that a smart meter wasn't wanted at this time.
Some properties built pre 2010 have analogue meters and the meters could have a certified life of 35 years, though it's more often 15 to 20 years. 
I had smart meters installed to get free electric from BG every Sunday for three years from March 2015 to March 2018 and I really hit the free electric period.

Now it's established that it was genuine, she will I'm sure provide pertinent feedback on the call.  Btw: it's not that hard to spoof a number, so a call looks like it's coming from a genuine number for that Company.  As far as I'm concerned any company has to verify their identity to me, the same as I do for them when called for.

dunstonh said:

Thanks for the clarification re: the Wifi, glad that was wrong as it sounded distinctly dodgy to me.  Lack of mobile signal has been given as a reason in the past for not fitting a smart meter though.

It was an issue in the past and for some people signal is still a problem.   Two attempts to get a smart meter installed in 2018 and 2020 failed due to lack of signal and conventional meters were installed on both occasions (both previous meters failed by having timers that went out of sync).    in 2023, a signal was possible and a smart meter was installed (just as the 2020 was starting to fail like the two previous).

Luckily, it meant we missed the SMETS1 and got a SMETS2.

It's still pretty bad here.  Zero mobile signal downstairs, some signal in one room upstairs.  Calls can fail, messages can fail to send, delays getting messages at time too.  It's just unreliable.  Unless they fit a new mobile tower, we'll never get a good signal here.  We're in a dip on the side of a hill, so totally blocked on three of four sides, and partially blocked on the forth side.  The shape of the terrain means no reliable mobile signal.  Even when I do have signal, the moment you go to call it'll fail.

Last thing I want is for them to start poking around then realise they can't do it after all.

EssexHebridean

I’d say the biggest concern here is that due to the way the call was handled, your friend by the sound of it DID give out personal details without being absolutely certain who they were really speaking to - and that is of course incredibly risky for them. s you say that they are vulnerable, could you take responsibility for a bit of “training” about how to handle something like this in the future? While this one has turned out to be fine, the next one might not be. 

Scot_39

Although it's been a few years - it certainly used to be the case that at least some meter fitters would not touch the meters - unless they had owners - not tenants - approval.

EOn (just predating the switchover to EOn Next) used to have such a policy, and on one case that was not a user requested change but an enforced on, as did Scottish Power in the 00's.

This was not advised by EOn to one relative - so the meter fitter went away - without doing the work.  IIRC they would accept verbal permission by phone in the case of my nephew's houseshare when he was student.  Seemed a bit pointless - as my nephew could have phoned anyone - to "play" landlord.

Some things are allowed - like swapping suppliers and possibly even some tariff's on existing meter - a right of all tenants - swapping meters - especially meter operation - is not the same thing.

 

And certainly in past pre smart - tenants could be charged for reinstating meters to initial type at end of tenancy.

Cannot find the old original stronger reference but there's still a warning for tenants in the prepay to credit meter in this link on CA website

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/get-your-prepayment-meter-replaced-with-a-normal-meter/

It's very unlikely that any landlord could object to a supplier enforced - e.g. end of life - like for like replacement - but should be notified as a simple matter of courtesy.

But as soon as functionality changes are involved (e.g. losing E7 ALCS on switch to SR, prepay / credit etc ) - it's probably pretty safe to say landlords should be involved.