Very pushy replacement energy meter calls

mmmmikey

prowla said:

powerful_Rogue said:

I would just double the standing charge and electric/gas rate for those that refuse a smart meter with no genuine reason.

I'm sure something like this will happen in the future, sadly it probably won't be as extreme as i'd like it to be.

Why on earth would you want to do that and what would you define as a "genuine reason"?

Plus, what would the "extreme" you'd like it to be - hanging?

I'd agree that hanging would be extreme. But given that the option to hugely reduce bills by buying electricity when it's cheaper doesn't seem to be enough of an incentive, and other folks rolling their eyes and shaking their heads at bogus anti-smart meter arguments doesn't seem to be enough of a deterrent then maybe something else is called for.

I'm thinking of a "smart meter awareness" course (along the lines of a speed awareness course for first time speeders) as an alternative. The idea would be to dispel the myths that surround smart meters and help those stuck in their ways understand how important they are for managing the grid and controlling energy costs as the transition to green energy continues.

Or if that doesn't work, maybe community service cleaning up flood damaged homes would help smart meter refusers and other offenders appreciate the real cost of burning fossil fuels?

To balance this a bit, I do think it's time to pension off Albert Einstein. He's become so obsessed with extolling the benefits of his IHD that he's confused some people into thinking that is the smart meter, and distracted others attention from the many other benefits.

Meanwhile, lots of us money saving types are saving hundreds of pounds a year by using smart tariffs and looking on in bemusement at all the fuss.....

powerful_Rogue

prowla said:

Chrysalis said:

Scot_39 said:

Chrysalis said:

If I was an energy company and I got a customer who was resisting a routine swap, I would be doubling down on it, as in my opinion it makes it more likely they have a tampered meter.

Meter tampering - or at least those caught for doing so is still fairly rare.

Counted in 1000s e.g.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/energy-regulator-steps-action-against-festive-fraud

I like my smart meter / IHD - but suspect millions are reluctant to go smart. 

Some who have wish they hadn't as problems when they occur are handled badly by suppliers.

When they are selling tariffs that can only be billed accurately when the meters operate reliably - like EV and TOU tariffs based on multiregister or 1/2 hourly data - they need to be far more responsive at fixing problems.

Days / weeks not weeks / months.

Thankfully you added "those caught".  I expect we dont know true numbers as the resources are not there to police it.

Nonetheless, I would think that the numbers are small - I've only ever known of it happening once.

Certainly that alone is not worth the cost of creating a sub-industry to replace every meter across the country.

powerful_Rogue said:

prowla said:

powerful_Rogue said:

I would just double the standing charge and electric/gas rate for those that refuse a smart meter with no genuine reason.

I'm sure something like this will happen in the future, sadly it probably won't be as extreme as i'd like it to be.

Why on earth would you want to do that and what would you define as a "genuine reason"?

Plus, what would the "extreme" you'd like it to be - hanging?

Can't be fitted due to no fault of the occupier (EG: Spacing, no signal etc)

Extreme is what I said - Double standing charge and double unit rate for electric/gas.

As to why? Because the tin foil hat brigade irritate me!

So, the "genuine reason" is that the "tin foil hat" brigade annoy you...

As stated in my first response, the future of the grid is relying upon a smart network.

The_Green_Hornet

British Gas want all UK households to be forced to have smart meters; Octopus disagree.

British Gas boss says all UK households should be forced to fit smart meters | Gas | The Guardian

prowla

mmmmikey said:

prowla said:

powerful_Rogue said:

I would just double the standing charge and electric/gas rate for those that refuse a smart meter with no genuine reason.

I'm sure something like this will happen in the future, sadly it probably won't be as extreme as i'd like it to be.

Why on earth would you want to do that and what would you define as a "genuine reason"?

Plus, what would the "extreme" you'd like it to be - hanging?

I'd agree that hanging would be extreme. But given that the option to hugely reduce bills by buying electricity when it's cheaper doesn't seem to be enough of an incentive, and other folks rolling their eyes and shaking their heads at bogus anti-smart meter arguments doesn't seem to be enough of a deterrent then maybe something else is called for.

I'm thinking of a "smart meter awareness" course (along the lines of a speed awareness course for first time speeders) as an alternative. The idea would be to dispel the myths that surround smart meters and help those stuck in their ways understand how important they are for managing the grid and controlling energy costs as the transition to green energy continues.

Or if that doesn't work, maybe community service cleaning up flood damaged homes would help smart meter refusers and other offenders appreciate the real cost of burning fossil fuels?

To balance this a bit, I do think it's time to pension off Albert Einstein. He's become so obsessed with extolling the benefits of his IHD that he's confused some people into thinking that is the smart meter, and distracted others attention from the many other benefits.

Meanwhile, lots of us money saving types are saving hundreds of pounds a year by using smart tariffs and looking on in bemusement at all the fuss.....

So, that could be a reason to entice people to change, rather than try and force them.

The idea of penalising people, forcing them to do courses, calling them "offenders", and so-on is a bit draconian.

I'm not sure what smart meters have to do with green energy either.

For me, I don't think my usage pattern would change much; looking at what I do it's mostly set by need anyway.

So nothing there suggests an imperative to have smart meters fitted..

powerful_Rogue said:

prowla said:

Chrysalis said:

Scot_39 said:

Chrysalis said:

If I was an energy company and I got a customer who was resisting a routine swap, I would be doubling down on it, as in my opinion it makes it more likely they have a tampered meter.

Meter tampering - or at least those caught for doing so is still fairly rare.

Counted in 1000s e.g.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/energy-regulator-steps-action-against-festive-fraud

I like my smart meter / IHD - but suspect millions are reluctant to go smart. 

Some who have wish they hadn't as problems when they occur are handled badly by suppliers.

When they are selling tariffs that can only be billed accurately when the meters operate reliably - like EV and TOU tariffs based on multiregister or 1/2 hourly data - they need to be far more responsive at fixing problems.

Days / weeks not weeks / months.

Thankfully you added "those caught".  I expect we dont know true numbers as the resources are not there to police it.

Nonetheless, I would think that the numbers are small - I've only ever known of it happening once.

Certainly that alone is not worth the cost of creating a sub-industry to replace every meter across the country.

powerful_Rogue said:

prowla said:

powerful_Rogue said:

I would just double the standing charge and electric/gas rate for those that refuse a smart meter with no genuine reason.

I'm sure something like this will happen in the future, sadly it probably won't be as extreme as i'd like it to be.

Why on earth would you want to do that and what would you define as a "genuine reason"?

Plus, what would the "extreme" you'd like it to be - hanging?

Can't be fitted due to no fault of the occupier (EG: Spacing, no signal etc)

Extreme is what I said - Double standing charge and double unit rate for electric/gas.

As to why? Because the tin foil hat brigade irritate me!

So, the "genuine reason" is that the "tin foil hat" brigade annoy you...

As stated in my first response, the future of the grid is relying upon a smart network.

Well, 60% of UK households were on smart meters by Q3 2023 (according to gov.uk) and the aim is for it to be every household by end Q4 2025.

Whether it gets to 100% or stalls at 90% won't be too much of an issue; the numbers probably aren't that accurate anyway, as opposed to tracking actual usage in real-time.

So I wouldn't be getting too het-up about it all.

How smart the UK's network management will be is something we'll have to see.

I'm guessing that the smartness primarily relates to electricity, as gas is a physical product which can be bought and stored rather than just-in-time on-demand.

The_Green_Hornet said:

British Gas want all UK households to be forced to have smart meters; Octopus disagree.

British Gas boss says all UK households should be forced to fit smart meters | Gas | The Guardian

If you try and force people, then they will naturally be suspicious and push back.

If you offer them incentives and explain the benefits then they may see the light.

Me, I'm with Octopus, not British Gas.

BarelySentientAI

prowla said:

If you offer them incentives and explain the benefits then they may see the light.

They've been explaining the benefits for years, and are met by conspiracy theories, wilful ignorance or just ignored.

Isn't a 20-30% saving on your energy bills by using a smart tariff incentive enough?

booneruk

BarelySentientAI said:

prowla said:

If you offer them incentives and explain the benefits then they may see the light.

They've been explaining the benefits for years, and are met by conspiracy theories, wilful ignorance or just ignored.

Isn't a 20-30% saving on your energy bills by using a smart tariff incentive enough?

Conspiracy theorists always interest me. They like considering themselves "enlightened", convince themselves they are gloriously in the know, but so often in reality they're crackpots.

But, aside from all that, won't there be a natural date when all households have smart meters? What's the longest certification given to traditional meters? 25-30years? when was the last one of these fitted?

BarelySentientAI

booneruk said:

But, aside from all that, won't there be a natural date when all households have smart meters? What's the longest certification given to traditional meters? 25-30years? when was the last one of these fitted?

I suppose it will depend whether the suppliers start using statutory powers to get warrants for entry to replace meters of the hold-outs.

Just look through this board - plenty of "my meter doesn't work but I refuse to have a smart meter"

At the moment, there are enough accepting of the change and too much bad press about 'forced' prepayment meters for anyone to start pushing this issue hard.  Eventually those factors will be outweighed I guess.

The longest certification period I'm aware of is 35 years - for the CL27.2 - but most are either 10 or 20 years it seems.  Nothing stopping the government deciding to extend certification though, it's happened before.

mmmmikey

BarelySentientAI said:

prowla said:

If you offer them incentives and explain the benefits then they may see the light.

They've been explaining the benefits for years, and are met by conspiracy theories, wilful ignorance or just ignored.

Isn't a 20-30% saving on your energy bills by using a smart tariff incentive enough?

I agree but do you think "they" have been doing a good enough job of explaining it? 

The TV ads with gaz and leccy and more recently Albert Einstein have been focused on the benefits of having an IHD so you can see what you're using and change your habits etc. so you can use less. There's been very little publicity that I've been aware of around the benefits of smart tarriffs. 

And it does seem to me that a significant proportion of the objections we see now are based on sheer bloody-mindedness - i.e. a mindset that says "I don't care how much I'd benefit from having a smart meter, nobody's telling me what to do". Is this sensible and the way it should be? IMHO no. But is it the way it is? Almost certainly, yes.

Then there are the views based on either misunderstandings or out of date information. I'd like to think the tide is turning on this one, but given the amount of spin you read in the media, and even the main moneysavingexpert site, it's hardly surprising. For example, if you bought a 5G phone and couldn't use it because there's no signal in your area, you wouldn't describe the 'phone as faulty.  And if your 'phone needed replacing anyway, you might well chose to buy a 5G model on the grounds it's much the same price and even if you can't use it straight away you'll be ready when there is a signal. But if a smart meter can't get a signal it's described as faulty which creates a completely misleading impression in my view.

@prowla - in response to one of the points you make about the link between smart meters and green energy....

Much of the green energy that is generated is solar or wind. The problem with this is that there's very little control about the timing of supply - you get solar energy when the sun shines and wind energy when the wind blows. This creates a situation where there are times of surplus supply and prices are dirt cheap. Smart meters allow consumers to take advantage of this by allowing them to buy this cheap energy, and that is where lots of forumites are making huge savings on their bills. This demand management is one of the big advantages of smart meters - i.e. you can use the smart meters to give consumers financial incentives to use electricity when it's cheaper. Even if you're not one of the consumers that chooses to save money by shifting demand, you still benefit because the reduced demand at peak times helps control prices there.

GingerTim

BarelySentientAI said:

booneruk said:

But, aside from all that, won't there be a natural date when all households have smart meters? What's the longest certification given to traditional meters? 25-30years? when was the last one of these fitted?

I suppose it will depend whether the suppliers start using statutory powers to get warrants for entry to replace meters of the hold-outs.

Just look through this board - plenty of "my meter doesn't work but I refuse to have a smart meter"

At the moment, there are enough accepting of the change and too much bad press about 'forced' prepayment meters for anyone to start pushing this issue hard.  Eventually those factors will be outweighed I guess.

The longest certification period I'm aware of is 35 years - for the CL27.2 - but most are either 10 or 20 years it seems.  Nothing stopping the government deciding to extend certification though, it's happened before.

Or reduce the length of certification?

EssexHebridean

I suspect while there is entertainment to be gained by scaring the wits out of the more vulnerable members of our society, the conspiracy theorists won't let up - or at least, those with the agenda of creating the culture of fear won't anyway - those that just follow blindly because they think being non-conformist must be what the cool kids do might well be won over with the right incentives. (And others will simply grow out of that mindset, thankfully!) The irony in my mind is that they all so often call other members of society "sheep" - err, well, if following fact and science rather than half baked theories makes me a sheep, then...Baaaaah!