PCNs from NPM & letters from ZZPS for sold vehicle!! Unnecessary anxiety ):

Fruitcake

Vehicle ownership is irrelevant. What is important is that you tell the PPC you were neither the keeper not the driver.

Is the landowner and your MP helping with this yet?

redballoon2024

Fruitcake said:

Vehicle ownership is irrelevant. What is important is that you tell the PPC you were neither the keeper not the driver.

Is the landowner and your MP helping with this yet?

@Fruitcake yes I followed your instruction and made sure every parking ticket was appealed letting NPM know I was neither the keeper nor driver. Seems NPM have already passed some of them to ZZPS.

I have not investigated who the landowner is, but I will contact my MP about what has happened. 

Really difficult to be caught up in it, but these forums and contributors such as yourself as so helpful!! 

Grizebeck

Why don't people do these things online.  It's instant 

redballoon2024

Grizebeck said:

Why don't people do these things online.  It's instant 

I can’t speak for people but can for myself. An error on my part definitely. 

Coupon-mad

You can't be held liable.

The POFA does not create a 28 day window that shuts to prevent the purported keeper transferring liability.  Of course it remains rebuttable at any stage: you were not the keeper on the material date as the car had been sold.

On the face of it, it seems the DRA is lying to you.  They know there's no 28 day limit.

redballoon2024

Thank you everyone for your comments and assistance in this matter. I appealed every single ticket over 30 days ago now and was given email confirmation of my appeals being received but have heard nothing back yet. Well, today I find a new letter from ZZPS with a reference number matching one of the appealed tickets. So it seems they've just decided to bypass my appeal and send it straight off to debt collection??

Last week I got some GCTT letters too but these were relating to the previous ZZPS letters I continue to ignore.

These parking companies and debt collectors are a joke. I'm waiting for DVLA confirmation of vehicle sale and once that's received I'll pass that on to ZZPS and if they continue to hound me, well they can surely take me to court and a judge can review my proof of vehicle sale to finally end this matter. How ridiculous! 

nopcns

You say you have read the Newbies/FAQ thread yet you keep referring to ZZPS and GCCT and any other DRA as though they matter. They don't. They are safely ignored. They cannot instruct anyone to do anything about the PCNs. They are a third party to any alleged breach of contract between the driver/keeper and NPM.

Stop worrying about anything except NPM. If/when they are stupid enough to either send you an LoC or instruct one of their roboclaim solicitors to do so, you can then either respond to the LoC as advised in the second post in the Newbies/FAQ thread or just wait for the claim where you will get all the advice you need to defend it robustly. Let them waste their time and money while you just get on with your life. It really couldn't be simpler than that.

Harvez63

molerat said:

If you go here https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ you can check when the last V5 was issued.

The above is a really good link, at least to put your mind are rest about transferring ownership, its towards the bottom "Date of last V5C (logbook) issued", see if it matches closely to your sale receipt date. As others side though dont get caught up in this.

Remember what this is, it is a well rehearsed and repeated scam, using the UK's legal system to scare people into payment. Thats the whole goal. Pressure and scare. Once you've been through it, you'll look back and see it for what it is. But during, I know its horrible. Been through it myself. 

You'll get the help you need on here. Just remove the thought of the legal firms as being legit big time solicitors, they're not. They're no different to the Prince of Nigeria who often emails everyone saying he needs to give his £1billion US dollars away to you. Good luck 

moto50

redballoon2024 said:

Thank you everyone for your comments and assistance in this matter. I appealed every single ticket over 30 days ago now and was given email confirmation of my appeals being received but have heard nothing back yet. Well, today I find a new letter from ZZPS with a reference number matching one of the appealed tickets. So it seems they've just decided to bypass my appeal and send it straight off to debt collection??

Last week I got some GCTT letters too but these were relating to the previous ZZPS letters I continue to ignore.

These parking companies and debt collectors are a joke. I'm waiting for DVLA confirmation of vehicle sale and once that's received I'll pass that on to ZZPS and if they continue to hound me, well they can surely take me to court and a judge can review my proof of vehicle sale to finally end this matter. How ridiculous! 

I have been through similar, and it was a fight I must say. However, in my case Covid meant that a new V5 was never processed properly for whatever reason....or so I was told. That meant that despite the fact that I had sold it, luckily (due to issues before with DVLA losing V5's had photocopied before sending off) I had a copy of the signed V5.

DVLA will only update their records on the day - they don't back-date, even if they can see the vehicle was sold before the offence and that still makes you liable as they hide behind the Owner/Keeper clause. That puts you in a position of either pursuading the debt collectors that you had sold it on that date somehow - and you will waste so much time proving you don't own it with insurance transfers etc and  I promise you and all the time they ask for more and more inane evidence. The clock is ticking and they are progressing to CCJ or enforcement. You won't go to court, its a closed door stamping affair that take nothing you say into consideration, please don't hang on to that, it's hopeless.

The best advice I can give you right now, is to contact the owner, by whatever means. I am not sure what details you had, check old email or messages, if you have the old V5, the address should be on that copy. Contact them, and just tell them that DVLA have made him aware that they have not received the V5 and you are wanting to get it sent to them to save him paying for one - give them your email address. They will most likely respond, just make sure you state it was the vehicle with reg and date of purchase. You may find they have been fighting to get a V5 for all you know! You will offer them a statement agreeing that the vehicle was sold on X date for X amount and you are good to go.

Doing this was what ended my issues - and it went right to the 11th hour with MP's involved, solicitors involved and they denied all proof. It was when I told them I was tracing and contacting the owner that they went quiet - that was when I had the reply from the owner. She stated they knew who she was all along, and that she had proven she had no more money to give them - That month was the same month they came for me as a previous owner. So it sounds daft, but do contact the owner and if you really can't contact them, then contact Police as there is a duty to stop vehicles to determine who is driving when the owner and registered keeper are different. It is usually invoked by councils when over 3 tickets have gone unpaid - but they don't operate by the rules. As you are the registered keeper, you can ask this vehicle is stopped - that is a last resort if you can't find any contact for the owner.

Contact TEC and make them aware of the dispute, you may be able to call it back, and get it reissued or appealed out of time. Also get hold of Citizens advice as they may be able to help, and if it gets too hot with enforcement they can put you into breathing space, which can buy you time to get things sorted. TEC is painfully slow, so that time will pass quickly - use it wisely, and make it count.

redballoon2024

moto50 said:

redballoon2024 said:

Thank you everyone for your comments and assistance in this matter. I appealed every single ticket over 30 days ago now and was given email confirmation of my appeals being received but have heard nothing back yet. Well, today I find a new letter from ZZPS with a reference number matching one of the appealed tickets. So it seems they've just decided to bypass my appeal and send it straight off to debt collection??

Last week I got some GCTT letters too but these were relating to the previous ZZPS letters I continue to ignore.

These parking companies and debt collectors are a joke. I'm waiting for DVLA confirmation of vehicle sale and once that's received I'll pass that on to ZZPS and if they continue to hound me, well they can surely take me to court and a judge can review my proof of vehicle sale to finally end this matter. How ridiculous! 

I have been through similar, and it was a fight I must say. However, in my case Covid meant that a new V5 was never processed properly for whatever reason....or so I was told. That meant that despite the fact that I had sold it, luckily (due to issues before with DVLA losing V5's had photocopied before sending off) I had a copy of the signed V5.

DVLA will only update their records on the day - they don't back-date, even if they can see the vehicle was sold before the offence and that still makes you liable as they hide behind the Owner/Keeper clause. That puts you in a position of either pursuading the debt collectors that you had sold it on that date somehow - and you will waste so much time proving you don't own it with insurance transfers etc and  I promise you and all the time they ask for more and more inane evidence. The clock is ticking and they are progressing to CCJ or enforcement. You won't go to court, its a closed door stamping affair that take nothing you say into consideration, please don't hang on to that, it's hopeless.

The best advice I can give you right now, is to contact the owner, by whatever means. I am not sure what details you had, check old email or messages, if you have the old V5, the address should be on that copy. Contact them, and just tell them that DVLA have made him aware that they have not received the V5 and you are wanting to get it sent to them to save him paying for one - give them your email address. They will most likely respond, just make sure you state it was the vehicle with reg and date of purchase. You may find they have been fighting to get a V5 for all you know! You will offer them a statement agreeing that the vehicle was sold on X date for X amount and you are good to go.

Doing this was what ended my issues - and it went right to the 11th hour with MP's involved, solicitors involved and they denied all proof. It was when I told them I was tracing and contacting the owner that they went quiet - that was when I had the reply from the owner. She stated they knew who she was all along, and that she had proven she had no more money to give them - That month was the same month they came for me as a previous owner. So it sounds daft, but do contact the owner and if you really can't contact them, then contact Police as there is a duty to stop vehicles to determine who is driving when the owner and registered keeper are different. It is usually invoked by councils when over 3 tickets have gone unpaid - but they don't operate by the rules. As you are the registered keeper, you can ask this vehicle is stopped - that is a last resort if you can't find any contact for the owner.

Contact TEC and make them aware of the dispute, you may be able to call it back, and get it reissued or appealed out of time. Also get hold of Citizens advice as they may be able to help, and if it gets too hot with enforcement they can put you into breathing space, which can buy you time to get things sorted. TEC is painfully slow, so that time will pass quickly - use it wisely, and make it count.

Thanks for sharing what you went through. It really sounds like an ordeal.

I did manage to change the keeper online to the new owner details when I was aware of what had happened and I did backdate to the date the vehicle was sold. I then put a SAR through with DVLA so I'm waiting for that and hopefully it shows when the vehicle was owned to when it was sold - which was long before all these tickets started to come through the post. That then covers me to a degree.

I personally have to clue if it will be a LoC or a CCJ or if some random enforcement agents will show up. I've only learned these terms and how this all works through this forum and reading what people have gone through.

If it's a LoC surely that means court? Or is court just bypassed and someone puts through a CCJ? 

If it does proceed to a CCJ, I will just have to deal with that when it happens and attempt to defend myself. 

Worst comes to worst, I pay the absolutely ridiculous fee for something that really was not my fault, though it was to a degree when I didn't chase up the DVLA back when vehicle was sold.