Rejecting new car due to dealer misfuel

99iainb

Alfrescodave said:

Not sure how much help the fuel analysis will be. Yes it will show whether incorrect fuel has been added but won't categorically identify where or who added the wrong fuel.
The dealer will claim it could have been you, the petrol station or even the repairer who has caused the fuel to be contaminated; especially since you drove 260 miles with no performance issues (your words).

How did the breakdown occur ? was it a gradual deterioration in engine performance/ a rapid stop/ or unable to start the car?

When it happened it was pretty sudden, I was on the M5 and luckily within a mile of the services and pulled straight off and called the AA.

I've been told the fuel separates and when it's burnt through the petrol (that I put in) it gets to the contamination and then packs up

sevenhills

Alfrescodave said:

Not sure how much help the fuel analysis will be.

I think a misfuel is just speculation, an excuse.

99iainb

sevenhills said:

Alfrescodave said:

Not sure how much help the fuel analysis will be.

I think a misfuel is just speculation, an excuse.

This fuel sample needs to go off to the lab for analysis doesn't it. I'm going to ask them to do this

born_again

99iainb said:

I've been looking at the local news and on Twitter X and there have been no reports of fuel contamination in the area. I 100% filled with petrol. I "filled" the tank within 2 miles of the dealer could only get 32.5 litres in the 40 litre tank. Been talking to an ex dealer manager on another forum and he suspects the dealership jerry canned it to move it around the depot as they come with absolute minimal fuel in

Well as a brand new car, the amount you have put in would tally with the amount of fuel that is put in at factory to drive car off production line, around test track & what was required to get it on a transporter to port, onto & off ship & then through their PDI @ Tilbury. Then onto a transporter to dealer.
So miss fuel.. Really do not think so as that would have shown up at factory.

Alfrescodave

99iainb said

I've been told the fuel separates and when it's burnt through the petrol (that I put in) it gets to the contamination and then packs up

Whoever told you this is ill informed. Petrol is a good solvent and would have mixed with any diesel (if present).My money would be on a mechanical problem not a fuel mix up.

Mildly_Miffed

It had at most 8 litres in it when you got it with 9 miles on the clock, you put 30 litres of petrol in it, and you've done 260 miles since. There's no way it'd have run when you picked it up if they'd put even a five litre jerrycan of diesel in with three litres of petrol - that'd be 60%+ diesel...

Now one cylinder's gone down.

It's not misfuelling. They're guessing. They haven't even sent the fuel off for analysis.

It's a manufacturing issue with that injector.

"I've been told the fuel separates and when it's burnt through the petrol (that I put in) it gets to the contamination and then packs up"
Nah. Doesn't work like that. If it did, then the diesel would sink to the bottom of the tank, where the pickup is. The pickup doesn't float on top of the petrol in the tank.

Misfuelling is far worse on diesel engines than petrols, because the diesel pump runs at MUCH higher pressure than petrols, and relies on the fuel for lubrication. Petrol injection is normally about 4bar in an indirect injection engine, up to about 200bar in direct injection - but diesel injection is 2-3,000bar. Petrol strips lubrication from pumps, diesel lubricates.

99iainb

Mildly_Miffed said:

It had at most 8 litres in it when you got it with 9 miles on the clock, you put 30 litres of petrol in it, and you've done 260 miles since. There's no way it'd have run when you picked it up if they'd put even a five litre jerrycan of diesel in with three litres of petrol - that'd be 60%+ diesel...

Now one cylinder's gone down.

It's not misfuelling. They're guessing. They haven't even sent the fuel off for analysis.

It's a manufacturing issue with that injector.

"I've been told the fuel separates and when it's burnt through the petrol (that I put in) it gets to the contamination and then packs up"
Nah. Doesn't work like that. If it did, then the diesel would sink to the bottom of the tank, where the pickup is. The pickup doesn't float on top of the petrol in the tank.

Misfuelling is far worse on diesel engines than petrols, because the diesel pump runs at MUCH higher pressure than petrols, and relies on the fuel for lubrication. Petrol injection is normally about 4bar in an indirect injection engine, up to about 200bar in direct injection - but diesel injection is 2-3,000bar. Petrol strips lubrication from pumps, diesel lubricates.

Thanks, good info to know, it all sounds very fishy doesn't it! I know I've not misfueled it, the supply dealer says they haven't but the Repairing dealer says it has. Fuel analysis will hopefully give a definitive answer. Either way I'm rejecting it, if it had been a faulty plug or lead fair enough but an intrinsic engine issue and it can go back. 

m0bov

Did you take a sample? Is the car still at the dealer? I would be going down there or instructing someone to get a sample for my own testing. Especially given the stakes.

99iainb

m0bov said:

Did you take a sample? Is the car still at the dealer? I would be going down there or instructing someone to get a sample for my own testing. Especially given the stakes.

The repairing dealer kept the fuel, or a sample, when they drained the system to flush and clean it. The car is still with that dealer while I try and sort things out with the supply dealer who have said it wasn't them and is now with Hyundai UK. I'm going to call them in a bit to see if they'll arrange for the fuel to be sent off for analysis

Goudy

baser999 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Sounds highly unlikely that it came with diesel in tank otherwise it would had showed up almost instantly with such a small amount of fuel in the tank. The other possibility is you unknowingly filled it with contaminated fuel. 

You drove 260 miles, so very unlikely to have been a misfuel? I’m no expert but would have expected problems to have arisen much sooner into your journey, if not immediately

It depends on the percentage of diesel in the petrol.

Generally they often run for a while until the likes of the fuel filter, plugs and injectors start to clog up.
Then they start to misfire and judder more and more, before stalling and not restarting.
Obviously the more concentrated the diesel is, the sooner this happens.

It was typical you'd get a lot of smoke out of the exhaust, usually acrid white smoke that stings your eyes, but modern petrol cars have GPF's on them these days (Gasoline Particulate Filters), that will trap a lot of crud coming out the exhaust.
So again, you may not notice at lesser concentrations.

It's been a few years, but I have read of similar "diesel" problems with some new petrol and hybrid Hyundai's.
I am not sure what the actual problem was, but I seem to remember it wasn't actually diesel but oil in the fuel tanks.

If they are going to test it, get a sample tested yourself.