FIXED PENALTY NOTICE FOR CIGARETTE BUTT

LindsayT

I had just got in my friend's car when I was approached by an Enforcement Officer in a Morrisons car park just before midday (I had not been in Morrisons but had walked through to Specsavers). He said I had dropped a cigarette butt and not picked it up and asked for ID. I showed him the travel ashtray I have in my bag with a butt in it. He said "I know you have that but you dropped a butt". Well, he didn't know I had that until I showed him. 
I had just spent an hour and a half in the opticians having my cataract operation checked (receipt timed at 11.37) and just wanted to get home, so gave my ID.
He gave me the FPN and my friend drove off. Then I saw time on the FPN was 09.06. I was in Aldi at that time, receipt timed at 09.39. My friend's car park ticket is timed at 10.01. I went on the Council website to appeal it and there the FPN is timed at 23.11.52. If they are going to issue FPN's, surely they should get their act together regarding times.
So, I have appealed it and I have all the receipts including car park ticket but unfortunately not able to upload them as they ask. I have asked if there is anywhere I can send them to?
Just wondered what people think?

LightFlare

LindsayT said:

I had just got in my friend's car when I was approached by an Enforcement Officer in a Morrisons car park just before midday (I had not been in Morrisons but had walked through to Specsavers). He said I had dropped a cigarette butt and not picked it up and asked for ID. I showed him the travel ashtray I have in my bag with a butt in it. He said "I know you have that but you dropped a butt". Well, he didn't know I had that until I showed him. 
I had just spent an hour and a half in the opticians having my cataract operation checked (receipt timed at 11.37) and just wanted to get home, so gave my ID.
He gave me the FPN and my friend drove off. Then I saw time on the FPN was 09.06. I was in Aldi at that time, receipt timed at 09.39. My friend's car park ticket is timed at 10.01. I went on the Council website to appeal it and there the FPN is timed at 23.11.52. If they are going to issue FPN's, surely they should get their act together regarding times.
So, I have appealed it and I have all the receipts including car park ticket but unfortunately not able to upload them as they ask. I have asked if there is anywhere I can send them to?
Just wondered what people think?

You don't actually mention or state whether you did or did not in fact drop a butt on the floor

giraffe69

Nor in deed why the requisite files can't be uploaded.

TELLIT01

Irrespective of whether or not they dropped the butt, but accepting that nobody should do that, if the notice is timed for a period the OP can prove they were elsewhere I don't see how any appeal can fail.

Undervalued

LindsayT said:

I had just got in my friend's car when I was approached by an Enforcement Officer in a Morrisons car park just before midday (I had not been in Morrisons but had walked through to Specsavers). He said I had dropped a cigarette butt and not picked it up and asked for ID. I showed him the travel ashtray I have in my bag with a butt in it. He said "I know you have that but you dropped a butt". Well, he didn't know I had that until I showed him. 
I had just spent an hour and a half in the opticians having my cataract operation checked (receipt timed at 11.37) and just wanted to get home, so gave my ID.
He gave me the FPN and my friend drove off. Then I saw time on the FPN was 09.06. I was in Aldi at that time, receipt timed at 09.39. My friend's car park ticket is timed at 10.01. I went on the Council website to appeal it and there the FPN is timed at 23.11.52. If they are going to issue FPN's, surely they should get their act together regarding times.
So, I have appealed it and I have all the receipts including car park ticket but unfortunately not able to upload them as they ask. I have asked if there is anywhere I can send them to?
Just wondered what people think?

How does an Aldi receipt timed at 9.39 prove you were in there at 9.06?

Plus, did you actually drop the cigarette butt as alleged? If not, your post does you no favours as it tends to give the impression you are looking for a technicality! 

LindsayT

Can't upload files because I don't know how to do it. Expect you might need smartphone but I don't know.
@Undervalued, strange you only picked up on the Aldi receipt. What about the Morrisons car park ticket?

eddddy

TELLIT01 said:

Irrespective of whether or not they dropped the butt, but accepting that nobody should do that, if the notice is timed for a period the OP can prove they were elsewhere I don't see how any appeal can fail.

As I understand it,  the FPN was an invitation for the OP to discharge their liability to prosecution.

Some councils also allow you to make an appeal against an FPN before potentially prosecuting.

So the first question would be... if the OP doesn't pay the FPN (and possibly loses an appeal), and the council decides to prosecute, what evidence (i.e. what time) would they submit to the court?

Would they make the same mistake on the details they submit to court? Or would they check more carefully and get the time right?



And if the council does submit the wrong details, the court would probably consider whether the OP genuinely thought the FPN related to an incident that occurred at 9:06, or whether the OP knew it related to an incident that occurred at around 11:50.

If, for example, the Enforcement Officer said "You just dropped a cigarette butt over there" at 11:50 (and has that recorded on their body cam), the OP would find it hard to argue that they thought the officer was talking about something that happened at 9:06.

littleboo

Did you drop it ?

HillStreetBlues

Undervalued said:

Plus, did you actually drop the cigarette butt as alleged? If not, your post does you no favours as it tends to give the impression you are looking for a technicality! 

This is a MSE site, so not paying a fine (or a penalty) that you legally don't have to would certainly be classed as money saving.
I would avoid the parking-tickets-fines-parking  as that's full of posters trying to find a technicality.

Undervalued

HillStreetBlues said:

Undervalued said:

Plus, did you actually drop the cigarette butt as alleged? If not, your post does you no favours as it tends to give the impression you are looking for a technicality! 

This is a MSE site, so not paying a fine (or a penalty) that you legally don't have to would certainly be classed as money saving.
I would avoid the parking-tickets-fines-parking

Maybe.

However some members, me included, may well be less inclined to help those who are actually "guilty" whilst quite happy to devote our time to helping those falsely accused!

HillStreetBlues

Undervalued said:

HillStreetBlues said:

Undervalued said:

Plus, did you actually drop the cigarette butt as alleged? If not, your post does you no favours as it tends to give the impression you are looking for a technicality! 

This is a MSE site, so not paying a fine (or a penalty) that you legally don't have to would certainly be classed as money saving.
I would avoid the parking-tickets-fines-parking

Maybe.

However some members, me included, may well be less inclined to help those who are actually "guilty" whilst quite happy to devote our time to helping those falsely accused!

But it's very simple not to help someone if you feel that way inclined, you don't post.
Nothing wrong with asking if they did drop it (as you then can choose to help ot not ),  but waiting for the answer would be the wises action.