Sainsburys Bank ATM Faulty or Cash Trapping Scam

djh

General_Grant said:

I wonder why the OP is not considered a customer of Sainsbury's Bank/ATM operator?  Though he is not paying them or using one of their cards he is using a service they offer (dispensing cash).  Does that not make him a customer?  Or is it just the account holding bank who can be considered one of their customers?

Thanks to everyone for replies and suggestions.
I have yet to hear a reply from Sainsbury (the store) or the FOS regarding new Nationwide complaint.

With nearly 64K of Nectar points (not very sensible I know) but I must defer to my other half and manager in these matters, you would think Sainsbury would consider us as customers.
Unfortunately it is the Bank that is the issue.

"I know for a fact that since the introduction of polymer notes cash differences have rocketed."

Another interesting comment from the knowledgeable retired banker above that I had completely overlooked.
Has their introduction made things worse ? although hard to prove in my case.  



 

WillPS

djh said:

Thanks to everyone for replies and suggestions.
I have yet to hear a reply from Sainsbury (the store) or the FOS regarding new Nationwide complaint.

With nearly 64K of Nectar points (not very sensible I know) but I must defer to my other half and manager in these matters, you would think Sainsbury would consider us as customers.
Unfortunately it is the Bank that is the issue.
 

You are a Sainsburys customer, and you might yet be successful in getting them to offer some goodwill since it was their subsidiary who's machine caused this, and it was on their property.

Unfortunately you aren't a customer of Sainsbury's Bank tho (which is a separate company with a different, much more stringent, regulatory regime), and further still even if you were the only company with liability in this situation is your card issuer.

born_again

pridehappy said:

This sounds like a technical glitch. In this case, it wouldn't be the problem of Nationwide as they technically haven't done anything wrong, so they'd just have declined the complaint.

You should always submit a complaint with Sainsbury's Bank as they are the ones who are responsible for the ATM itself. I think I can see they rejected your complaint, so you can go to the ombudsman for more advice.

I've always tried to use an ATM at an actual bank branch to be honest, especially internally if possible. It means usually if something goes wrong staff are waiting for you there and then to help, and in most cases, witness themselves what happened. 

As previously posted.
OP is not a customer so you can not complain to them, all complaints go via your won bank..

eskbanker

retiredbanker1 said:

When I worked in retail I had discretionary authority to deal with complaints up to £100.

First thing to consider is the claim credible? Have they complained previously about similar transactions and general thing such as length of account holding and account use.
All of the above would be visible to me - their internal score with the bank, complaints history and notes added when transacting with the customer such as applications for loans etc.

So taking the OP at face value I would have refunded the customer at first complaint stage (I knew he was originally refunded then re- debited back).
This would have been the end of the matter.

I realise that Nationwide's systems and staff may work differently but sure to god to go so far with this palava is a joke.

I know for a fact that since the introduction of polymer notes cash differences have rocketed. Sometimes the machines at our place would be under or over by hundreds of pounds. The notes stick in the belt system and fall into the back of the machine rather than retract into the reject bin.
 
I might be getting old but this decision is mad!

Someone working in an unregulated sector will have more discretion than those within financial services, but the key point here is that Nationwide don't believe they're at fault, in that they've been assured by the ATM operator that the machine wasn't faulty and dispensed the money (as it did with OP's subsequent two withdrawals).  OP has told Nationwide that the ATM was faulty, so they've effectively said 'please share the evidence of this', which is hardly an unreasonable position - there will presumably be a standard protocol for dealing with ATM disputes, which won't generally accept a customer's word over the technology (and yes, I'm sure we all know a prominent example of the dangers of that!).

I do sympathise with OP being caught in the middle between two or three organisations with conflicting stories here, but ultimately this is all going to come down to someone being able to get Sainsburys to agree in writing that their machine was compromised, whether that's OP, or Nationwide, or FOS....

MeteredOut

eskbanker said:

retiredbanker1 said:

When I worked in retail I had discretionary authority to deal with complaints up to £100.

First thing to consider is the claim credible? Have they complained previously about similar transactions and general thing such as length of account holding and account use.
All of the above would be visible to me - their internal score with the bank, complaints history and notes added when transacting with the customer such as applications for loans etc.

So taking the OP at face value I would have refunded the customer at first complaint stage (I knew he was originally refunded then re- debited back).
This would have been the end of the matter.

I realise that Nationwide's systems and staff may work differently but sure to god to go so far with this palava is a joke.

I know for a fact that since the introduction of polymer notes cash differences have rocketed. Sometimes the machines at our place would be under or over by hundreds of pounds. The notes stick in the belt system and fall into the back of the machine rather than retract into the reject bin.
 
I might be getting old but this decision is mad!

Someone working in an unregulated sector will have more discretion than those within financial services, but the key point here is that Nationwide don't believe they're at fault, in that they've been assured by the ATM operator that the machine wasn't faulty and dispensed the money (as it did with OP's subsequent two withdrawals).  OP has told Nationwide that the ATM was faulty, so they've effectively said 'please share the evidence of this', which is hardly an unreasonable position - there will presumably be a standard protocol for dealing with ATM disputes, which won't generally accept a customer's word over the technology (and yes, I'm sure we all know a prominent example of the dangers of that!).

I do sympathise with OP being caught in the middle between two or three organisations with conflicting stories here, but ultimately this is all going to come down to someone being able to get Sainsburys to agree in writing that their machine was compromised, whether that's OP, or Nationwide, or FOS....

That's what I said almost two weeks ago:

"It's not about who has the information to get the issue resolved. It's who need to drive the resolution. The money came out of the OP's Nationwide account so he needs to open a complaint with them.

I suspect it will be very difficult to get someone at Nationwide to take ownership and work with Sainsburys Bank to get to the bottom of what really happened, but, make enough of a noise and the OP could get their money back as a please go away gesture of goodwill payment."

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80522769/#Comment_80522769

Keep making a nuisance of yourself with Nationwide.

djh

The ATM IN QUESTION.

djh

I did not manage to get the text in above photo which I took directly following the incident.I have zoomed in to get a close up of the cash dispenser slot and can see no obvious device.
The full photo has both ATMS in view the other one was not in service .There is now a new sign up warning of CCTV in use.

eskbanker

MeteredOut said:

eskbanker said:

I do sympathise with OP being caught in the middle between two or three organisations with conflicting stories here, but ultimately this is all going to come down to someone being able to get Sainsburys to agree in writing that their machine was compromised, whether that's OP, or Nationwide, or FOS....

That's what I said almost two weeks ago:

"It's not about who has the information to get the issue resolved. It's who need to drive the resolution. The money came out of the OP's Nationwide account so he needs to open a complaint with them.

I suspect it will be very difficult to get someone at Nationwide to take ownership and work with Sainsburys Bank to get to the bottom of what really happened, but, make enough of a noise and the OP could get their money back as a please go away gesture of goodwill payment."

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80522769/#Comment_80522769

Keep making a nuisance of yourself with Nationwide.

We're not quite saying the same thing - things have moved on during those two weeks and Nationwide have responded to OP's complaint by saying they'll revisit the situation but only if OP provides some evidence, so, while I agree that the complaint has to be raised with Nationwide (in terms of OP not being a customer of Sainsburys Bank), they've now put the ball back in OP's court.  As you say though, OP could potentially sound off enough to convince Nationwide to reopen the discussion with Sainsburys Bank, but to me that still remains one of three options.

djh

I do understand this is an old post, however I did promise to update when any new information was available.
The Financial Ombudsman assigned to my case has informed me today they have found in my favour .When I get further information I will give a further update.

Shakin_Steve

djh said:

I do understand this is an old post, however I did promise to update when any new information was available.
The Financial Ombudsman assigned to my case has informed me today they have found in my favour .When I get further information I will give a further update.

Thank you for updating us.