Sainsburys Bank ATM Faulty or Cash Trapping Scam

eskbanker

financehelp23 said:

I had a similar problem today with the Sainsbury Cash Machine. 250 was deducted from the bank, but no cash came out! The bank said have to wait for some day's money back and then raise the dispute! This is crazy！ 

That's not necessarily similar to the complex scenario under discussion in this thread, other than the superficial commonality of a Sainsburys ATM not dispensing what was expected.  When you raise the issue with your bank, they then need to liaise with Sainsburys Bank to ascertain if there was a discrepancy highlighted when the ATM is reconciled, but this isn't an instantaneous process....

djh

financehelp23 said:

I had a similar problem today with the Sainsbury Cash Machine. 250 was deducted from the bank, but no cash came out! The bank said have to wait for some day's money back and then raise the dispute! This is crazy！ 

I would be very careful proceeding from this point.(from what I have learnt form some very helpful/knowledgeable replies)

The ATM may reconcile correctly so no problem.

I would make sure (if at a Sainsbury Store) the incident is reported at Customer Services with written confirmation including names. I reported it but have no proof.

I had a long telephone call with Nationwide and asked for a face to face meeting at a Branch (Refused)

Nationwide want me to provide proof of what I was told by the store Duty Manager (to Sainsburys).

I have had to repeat the process in all the proceeding posts with Nationwide and escalate to FOS as it is now over 8 weeks from initial complaint.(I do not have formal written rejection from Nationwide)

Regarding the Stevenage  ATM police report .The journalist who wrote the article replied to my request regarding "Lebanese Loop"( See part of reply below)

"Re. the card/cash confusion - this confused me too. We got the story from a Herts police press release warning people about the scam and stating that it was trapping cash. A quick Google told me that, as you say, it's usually used to refer to a device that traps the card rather than the cash. From memory, I rang up the police media team who confirmed it was supposed to say cash rather than card. I wonder if what they have called a 'Lebanese loop' is actually a similar though different device - as I understand it from your forum post, your cash never came out but you were able to retrieve your card okay?"

Well my cash did come out but went back in with no warning sounds (My Experience)

djh

An update for anyone interested in this ongoing dispute,

Due to not getting a reply from Nationwide on this issue in writing I called again today.I needed a final response from Nationwide to proceed with the F O S . I have copied an extract below.

Our decision

I’m sorry you're unhappy with the ATM claim outcome and feel you should be entitled to the refund of £70.00 as you’ve spoken with Sainsburys who advised there was a fraudulent device on the machine that was taking/holding notes back. However, I’m afraid I can’t agree we’ve done anything wrong due to the reasons explained below.

How did we reach our decision?

I’ve spoken to the ATM Disputes team who confirmed no errors were made by us when the claim was originally logged in November 2023. The £70 refund was given while they waited to receive a response from Sainsburys who then provided us evidence the money was given out. The refund was taken back on the 29 November 2023.

What happens next?

However, the ATM Disputes team are happy to review any evidence in relation to a fraudulent device being put on the ATM. If you could send this to us, they can review this. I can’t guarantee a refund at this stage because this will be the ATM Disputes team decision.

Please send any evidence to the email MS&Cteam7@nationwide.co.uk.

We’re here to help

eskbanker

djh said:

Due to not getting a reply from Nationwide on this issue in writing I called again today.I needed a final response from Nationwide to proceed with the F O S .

You don't actually need a final response in order to escalate to FOS, you can do so eight weeks after registering the complaint.

Obviously the message from Sainsburys Bank to Nationwide differs from what you've been told in store, so it's understandable why Nationwide consider they've done nothing wrong if they've been assured by the ATM operator that the cash was dispensed (and it's likely that FOS would agree) - without trawling back through the whole thread again, do you have anything in writing to support the fraudulent device impact?

djh

 "without trawling back through the whole thread again, do you have anything in writing to support the fraudulent device impact?"

All I have in writing is a Sainsburys Bank Complaints Guide where the  Duty Manager (who told me about the device after I had asked to see the manager) wrote his name and position on it in his own handwriting.He said ask the Sainsburys Bank complaints manager to call him.
I have left my details with a customer services team member (about 2 weeks ago) but they have failed to contact me.

There are questions the FOS can ask about the ATM in question that I have no authority to follow up.

born_again

FOS will only deal with nationwide. They will not contact Sainsburys over this. They just look at the complaint. have Nationwide followed the ATM procedure. Yes they have. Not become investigators.

sheramber

djh said:

 "without trawling back through the whole thread again, do you have anything in writing to support the fraudulent device impact?"

All I have in writing is a Sainsburys Bank Complaints Guide where the  Duty Manager (who told me about the device after I had asked to see the manager) wrote his name and position on it in his own handwriting.He said ask the Sainsburys Bank complaints manager to call him.
I have left my details with a customer services team member (about 2 weeks ago) but they have failed to contact me.

There are questions the FOS can ask about the ATM in question that I have no authority to follow up.

You have already been advised by FOS that they have no authority to question Sainsbury's Bank.  They can only investigate how Nationwide dealt with your complaint. 

Unfortunately, as I explained below, there's very little I can do as the rules we're governed by stipulate that I cannot investigate your complaint against Sainsbury's as you don't meet the definition of an eligible complainant.  

In all disputed cash withdrawal cases we deal with, the customer's complaint is about their bank (rather than the ATM provider) as ultimately there's where the disputed funds have been taken from.

djh

born_again said:

FOS will only deal with nationwide. They will not contact Sainsburys over this. They just look at the complaint. have Nationwide followed the ATM procedure. Yes they have. Not become investigators.

"In light of Mr A’s comments about the performance of the ATM operator, I asked for further information about the ATM and whether any foreign devices had been detected at that ATM. These devices are often referred to as “cash traps” and can be attached to machines by thieves to divert funds. The ATM operator was able to confirm that there were no reports of devices attached to the ATM Mr A used or another one operated by the same company that was nearby. Internal records were also checked to see if anyone else had reported similar issues and nothing was found. The ATM operator was able to confirm the machine was physically checked a few days after Mr A’s use of it and found to be working properly. The various amounts of cash left in the machine tallied with what had been dispensed. Effectively the machine balanced."

The above  reply from the F O S that indicates the FOS can investigate a 3rd party ATM dispute.The complaint was not upheld but at least the questions were asked.
Sainsburys may be "economical with the truth" in my case but at least I would like to know.

miller

Years' back, I requested £20 from a NatWest ATM. Peeled the top tenner off and let the other tenner go back in as an experiment. Account got debited £20, so I asked NatWest (banked with them at the time so only one party to deal with). They said their investigation concluded that the machine balanced (unlikely unless it got underfilled by £10 cancelling out my 'error'), but gave me a tenner as a goodwill gesture so I was back where I started.

djh

miller said:

Years' back, I requested £20 from a NatWest ATM. Peeled the top tenner off and let the other tenner go back in as an experiment. Account got debited £20, so I asked NatWest (banked with them at the time so only one party to deal with). They said their investigation concluded that the machine balanced (unlikely unless it got underfilled by £10 cancelling out my 'error'), but gave me a tenner as a goodwill gesture so I was back where I started.

At least you came out all square. 

This is the first time this has happened to me but times have changed.

I tend not to use an ATM unless in a busy area so how any "device" could have been fitted ,I have no idea.

Now I have formally complained to everyone involved ,I have re-submitted a  complaint to Sainsbury store and group.

See how that goes