Sainsburys Bank ATM Faulty or Cash Trapping Scam

WillPS

born_again said:

MrFrugalFever said:

Nationwide have very little to do with this scenario, I am struggling to think of a specific situation whereby they would be from the information the OP has provided. 
Perhaps, had the ATM failed to connect to the OP's bank account or a technical glitch had occurred whereby the OP had been charged for the withdrawal without physically receiving the money then Nationwide would have an involvement.

The issue is with the ATM itself (tampered with) and the Sainsbury's store in which it is situated and therefore the OP's efforts (with regards to the complaint) should be directed at Sainsbury's. It is the responsibility of Sainsbury's staff to refill the ATM's with cash and check for any obvious issues along with trying to fix any issues with a 'self-help' guide. Anything beyond this and an ATM engineer is required. Downtime for an ATM results in loss of income to the store.

Store staff have nothing to do with the ATM. Anything related to ATM is handled by 3rd party security company who fill & audit.

ATM's are part of Sainsburys bank, not Sainsburys stores. So no income is lost at the store. ATM being down might actually increase store income if people go in for cashback, as requires a purchase 👍

Not entirely true. Larger JS stores refill their own cash machines, or at least did when I worked for them (admittedly a long time ago now).

MeteredOut

WillPS said:

born_again said:

MrFrugalFever said:

Nationwide have very little to do with this scenario, I am struggling to think of a specific situation whereby they would be from the information the OP has provided. 
Perhaps, had the ATM failed to connect to the OP's bank account or a technical glitch had occurred whereby the OP had been charged for the withdrawal without physically receiving the money then Nationwide would have an involvement.

The issue is with the ATM itself (tampered with) and the Sainsbury's store in which it is situated and therefore the OP's efforts (with regards to the complaint) should be directed at Sainsbury's. It is the responsibility of Sainsbury's staff to refill the ATM's with cash and check for any obvious issues along with trying to fix any issues with a 'self-help' guide. Anything beyond this and an ATM engineer is required. Downtime for an ATM results in loss of income to the store.

Store staff have nothing to do with the ATM. Anything related to ATM is handled by 3rd party security company who fill & audit.

ATM's are part of Sainsburys bank, not Sainsburys stores. So no income is lost at the store. ATM being down might actually increase store income if people go in for cashback, as requires a purchase 👍

Not entirely true. Larger JS stores refill their own cash machines, or at least did when I worked for them (admittedly a long time ago now).

So, not entirely true, but might be?

sheramber

djh said:

Store staff have nothing to do with the ATM. Anything related to ATM is handled by 3rd party security company who fill & audit.


With regard to the above statement.

I spoke to a store manager a couple of days ago and Managers have access to the ATM area/room to be able to respond to customer complaints regarding ATM issues.

Nationwide have called and have said if I have proof that the ATM had been "tampered with" Sainsburys Bank will refund.

I only have the store managers admission to me and his name and position in his handwriting on a Sainsbury Bank complaints guide.

There must be a record that the ATM service company have.

What does the store manager intend to do with the money he says he i holding?

Has he reported the situation to Sainsbury's Bank? If not, why not?

He has no authority to pass the money to anybody except Sainsbury's Bank as it is their ATM. 

Has he notified Sainsbury's Bank about the tampering of the machine? Again, if not , why not? 

From Nationwide's reply it would appear Sainsbury's Bank do not know about it.

brianposter

Seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to complain to Sainsburys bank about the operation of a Sainsburys ATM and I would be inclined to invoke the FOS complaint system.

It should be up to Sainsburys and Nationwide, or the FOS, to sort out who pays out. It makes no sense for the customer to make that decision because they have no information about what actually happened. 

retiredbanker1

brianposter said:

Seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to complain to Sainsburys bank about the operation of a Sainsburys ATM and I would be inclined to invoke the FOS complaint system.

It should be up to Sainsburys and Nationwide, or the FOS, to sort out who pays out. It makes no sense for the customer to make that decision because they have no information about what actually happened. 

This is not how the LINK system works. As a Nationwide customer it is they and they only who can/will refund.
Look at it this way you want to make a few easy quid so you go to their ATM with another bank's card and then go in to say the cash was not dispensed - would you expect Sainsburys to reimburse you there and then?

eskbanker

brianposter said:

Seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to complain to Sainsburys bank about the operation of a Sainsburys ATM and I would be inclined to invoke the FOS complaint system.

OP did complain to Sainsburys Bank and then escalated to FOS, who confirmed last week that this was an invalid route when OP isn't a Sainsburys Bank customer:

the rules we're governed by stipulate that I cannot investigate your complaint against Sainsbury's as you don't meet the definition of an eligible complainant.  

In all disputed cash withdrawal cases we deal with, the customer's complaint is about their bank (rather than the ATM provider) as ultimately there's where the disputed funds have been taken from

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80514202/#Comment_80514202

brianposter

Institutional stupidity is obviously a hot topic at the moment and this appears to be an example. There is no reason why the complaint should be about Nationwide as they have manifestly not failed in any way.

And if the banks have set up a particular method of resolving a complaint it is they, not the customer, that should follow the process. The FOS should certainly not be fobbing people off with nonsense such as "you don't meet the definition of an eligible complainant".

And incidentally, whenever I have had an ATM failure, it has been rectified in cash by the bank where the ATM was installed. What happens if the failure occurs with a foreign card ?

djh

I have just found this recent story and will need to check that the report is factual.Stevenage is not too far away from here and the story is recent.However-I thought the "Lebanese Loop" was used to trap the card-not the cash.
I wonder -how many affected?

https://www.thecomet.net/news/23980860.herts-police-discover-atm-scam-stevenage-town-centre/

sheramber

The only people who would benefit from the machine retaining the cash would be those who had access to the back of it, so they could pocket the cash.

djh

sheramber said:

The only people who would benefit from the machine retaining the cash would be those who had access to the back of it, so they could pocket the cash.

That may be the case and one that I thought ,unless the scamming device malfunctioned.

Sainsburys Bank complaints manager definitely knows about the device I was told about as he mentioned it in my phone call.

Perhaps the banks just do not want to reveal how widespread this practice is, thus casting doubt on the integrity of the ATM networks.While they are closing down their Branch Networks.

This is also why I am not convinced re phone call complaints.( More difficult to prove what was said) 
Extract from Police Report below (Re Stevenage Link)

"According to police, the device prevents cash from being ejected when the customer has asked for it, with the machine instead drawing the cash back in. The customer is led to believe that their cash has not been withdrawn."