Been offered a smart meter , on economy 7

TheElectricCow

If you find the afternoon boost is necessary as the storage heaters don’t retain enough heat in the evenings, then you may be better off holding on to the current tariff for the time being.

There will eventually come a time when the current meter will have to be replaced though, so it may be worth giving some consideration to a heating upgrade in the future before the swap becomes a necessity - newer “High Heat Retention” storage heaters should have no trouble keeping hot in the evenings on Economy 7 without a boost.

At present, E7 is really the only traditional dual rate tariff still being offered by some suppliers for smart meters (despite the fact that the meters themselves are capable of supporting practically any possible combination of peak/off-peak periods). Legacy tariffs such as E10 or other less common complex metering arrangements on the whole are no longer being offered to customers, so once you leave the tariff it’s gone for good.

EssexHebridean

Swipe said:

Rosie1001 said:

I’ve asked …it will go on economy 7 they said 

my concern is , can this meter work my NSH ‘s properly 

No need to be concerned as long as you grill the installer before they start. Ask them if they are installing a 5 terminal meter and, if not, will it use an external contactor? And, most importantly, make sure they explicitly confirm that your storage heaters will work only on the off peak rate once the meter is installed.

I think there was an unspoken question in the OP’s post though - that being not only will the NSHs work, but will they work the same way as currently - and so keep them sufficiently warm. Unfortunately I suspect the answer to that bit is probably no, as others have said. 

You make very good points on the questions to ask on a standard switch of E7 “thick” meter for a smart one, though. 

Reed_Richards

I'm rather with @QrizB.  Insist, and get it in writing, that keep your Super Tariff if you move to a smart meter.  Technically this is perfectly feasible but in all probability EDF will tell you they cannot do it, so you can put off being removed from the tariff that suits your needs for as long as possible.  

TheElectricCow

Reed_Richards said:

I'm rather with @QrizB.  Insist, and get it in writing, that keep your Super Tariff if you move to a smart meter.  

In theory that would be the ideal solution, although in practice it’s not unheard of for suppliers to make those promises in writing only to not follow through with the agreement once the smart meter has been installed (more likely than not due to poorly informed customer service agents saying whatever they like just to get the meter installed).

What seems to happen from the threads I’ve read here is the customer has to then pursue a complaint for months through the ombudsman process, eventually ending up with some “go away” compensation money, and the supplier ultimately refusing to reinstate the original tariff anyway whether the ombudsman rules in favour or not.

Likely ends up being more trouble than it’s worth in reality, so anyone wanting to keep a legacy tariff on a smart meter should prepare carefully for a possible dispute and keep any relevant evidence safe that may be needed to support a case. I’m usually a strong supporter for smart metering, but this is one of the few situations where I think consumers really can be let down by the transition and would advise against an install.

Gerry1

Some smart meters have a Boost button that will liven up the E7 circuits during the day for an hour.  You can push it again up to a maximum number of times in 24 hours.  Of course, the boost will be at expensive daytime rates.  It will also liven up the immersion heater so that may need to be switched off temporarily.

It's not ideal and you have to be there to press the button, but getting such a meter might be a usable workaround if push comes to shove.

E10 tariffs are likely to be offered only by a few legacy suppliers and will become increasingly expensive and uncompetitive.  An E7 tariff with a low night rate and a smart meter with a boost button might be realistic if/when  you're eventually forced off E10.

However, if it's a 'forever' home then the long term solution is migrating to HHR NSHs such as Dimplex Quantum.  You'll then have the freedom to search the whole market for a competitive E7 night rate.

Together with the lower running costs of HHR NSHs it may not be so bad, but in the short term it may be better to hang on to your existing tariff and meters for as long as possible.

Scot_39

Heater Capacity.

Good detail above - but no clear guarantee max capacity the real or only issue with losing the 2 hours.

As op has 7 hrs and will still hopefully have 7 hrs - could be timing more than power limiting.

I have e10- out of the 10 hrs available - my largest living room  heater averages c3hrs in coldest months -  split across 3 slots per day.  So c10kWh per day as opposed to their essentially single slot e7 7hr at once 24kWh design storage capacity - let alone in theory 33kWh max charge over 5, 3 and 2 hour slots with heat loss between each.

Now you might equally argue that is over rated - but for instance Dimplex sizing tool assumes 21C for LR and -3 external (-5 in North) to size.  If others used that, for many and most winter days would need far lower energy.

I would have to turn up heater to store 3x more overnight on e7, drawing more heat during a day risking a much more uneven temperature profile in heater - impacting room and so probably bills by late evening.

Only I fear a better lot 20 or hhr nsh would likely solve my problem with that if went e7. So follow with interest posts on these here with interest - as fear will lose e10 in next meter change.


There are meant to be Ofgem protections in place for those on complex tariffs - like this proposal consultation report from a few years ago -  talking about extending to 2025.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/docs/2020/10/decision_letter_extending_protections_for_non-e7_restricted_meter_customers_slc_22g_requirements_for_restricted_meters.pdf

It refers non standard smart meters are potentially needed to support some legacy systems.

But suspect in practice there is no hard guarantee of exact like for like rates or tariffs.

And other posts suggest people are experiencing it.  Like one here with EOn on E10 who ended up on E7 following meter change.


Simple Meter type suitability.

Despite above - not all home wiring is compatible with a standard 4 or even 5 port e7 meter type - without meter cabinet or even consumer unit / internal wiring (at customers cost remember) or functional loss.

At least one of the biggest users of rts in % of share of homes terms -   Scottish Power - offers a system that has 3 distinct wiring circuits not just 2 - with just one for nsh etc reliant on rts meter time of use supply based switching and the other on a different tariff band 24/7 from other circuits.
Others genuinely change off peak duration cf forecast temperatures seasonally. 

Several rts operators are therefore once again asking for even more delays to rts switchoff.

And one post here was told that supplier didn't yet have a suitable smart replacement.

My previous rts heatwise drove 3 independent circuits - I lost the separation of hw immersion including day time boost mode for hw (funtionality lost) and night storage heaters when EOn insisted they were removing the heatwise dual setup as part of meter simplification - years before rts switch off.


I fear edf will push a standard e7 solution - but even that may need care to fit in with existing metering and home circuits.
And as above - albeit rare posts here - show it often always doesn't go smoothly.

Rosie1001

Thanks you all for your replies

Rosie1001

spoken to the complex meter team and they told me that meter is not suitable for my set up , regardless of what customer service say 

I’ve been told to sit tight and see what happens in regard to the rts extension 

I also got my bill … I’m furious as they dropped my direct debit and issued a £500 refund which Is the credit I’ve built up for colder weather ….

off to deal with that now ..it’s never ending with energy companies 

debitcardmayhem

Rosie1001 said:

spoken to the complex meter team and they told me that meter is not suitable for my set up , regardless of what customer service say 

I’ve been told to sit tight and see what happens in regard to the rts extension 

I also got my bill … I’m furious as they dropped my direct debit and issued a £500 refund which Is the credit I’ve built up for colder weather ….

off to deal with that now ..it’s never ending with energy companies 

Put the refund in an interest bearing account and draw some before each bill

Rosie1001

don’t think Any account makes  interest these days