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A thread of Pictures of parking firm NTKs

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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    That paragraph at the top of page 2 is appalling.  Page 1 also shouts about a CCJ too.

    Looks POFA compliant except for minor technicalities (such as not stating that they don't know who was driving) but I'd say a Judge would consider it a PoFA one.
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  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 22,405 Forumite
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    edited 1 December 2023 at 6:08PM
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    My reading of POFA 9(2)e states the PPC must invite the keeper not "the keeper should"! 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    edited 4 December 2023 at 5:22PM
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    But a Judge won't go for that, so I don't believe we should even tell posters that sort of stuff.

    There is 'scattergun' and then there is 'even more desperate scattergun' defences/appeal points, and I draw the line at the second one!

    EDIT: PLEASE DON'T USE THIS THREAD FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN PHOTOS OF NTKs THAT WE DON'T YET HAVE IN THE LIST IN POST ONE.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • splinter64
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    Thanks for this thread. I have the second (Nov 23) version of the euro car parks NTK, as posted by @Coupon-mad above. I am doing a POPLA appeal with all the usual points (I may post in another thread) and sounds like I'm unlikely to win on PoFA compliance, but I will stick it in anyway. My arguments for non compliance so far:
    -doesn't explicitly state that they don't know who the driver is
    -uses "advise" rather than "warn"
    -doesn't actually say when it was "sent", only when it was "issued" (is that the same?)

    The key sentence in this NTK is not really grammatically correct: "If you do not provide the correct address for service of the driver, pass the notice on to the driver, we will pursue you...".

    The big one for me is that the PoFA states the NTK must describe "the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable". Because this is a template, it is vague about this and doesn't explain whether they think a payment was made but vehicle overstayed, or whether no payment was made, or there was some other problem.

    Does PoFA dictate the evidence that they have to include in the NTK? Paragraph 10 suggests that it could, but I guess no amendments have been made to specify e.g., the type of photo that should be included?

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,515 Forumite
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    Thanks for this thread. I have the second (Nov 23) version of the euro car parks NTK, as posted by @Coupon-mad above. I am doing a POPLA appeal with all the usual points (I may post in another thread) and sounds like I'm unlikely to win on PoFA compliance, but I will stick it in anyway. My arguments for non compliance so far:
    -doesn't explicitly state that they don't know who the driver is
    -uses "advise" rather than "warn"
    -doesn't actually say when it was "sent", only when it was "issued" (is that the same?)

    The key sentence in this NTK is not really grammatically correct: "If you do not provide the correct address for service of the driver, pass the notice on to the driver, we will pursue you...".

    The big one for me is that the PoFA states the NTK must describe "the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable". Because this is a template, it is vague about this and doesn't explain whether they think a payment was made but vehicle overstayed, or whether no payment was made, or there was some other problem.

    Does PoFA dictate the evidence that they have to include in the NTK? Paragraph 10 suggests that it could, but I guess no amendments have been made to specify e.g., the type of photo that should be included?

    Please open a new thread of your own with details of your parking event. This thread is a repository for examples of NtKs, not for individual cases. Plenty of help available once on your own detailed thread. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • splinter64
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    Umkomaas said:
    Thanks for this thread. I have the second (Nov 23) version of the euro car parks NTK, as posted by @Coupon-mad above. I am doing a POPLA appeal with all the usual points (I may post in another thread) and sounds like I'm unlikely to win on PoFA compliance, but I will stick it in anyway. My arguments for non compliance so far:
    -doesn't explicitly state that they don't know who the driver is
    -uses "advise" rather than "warn"
    -doesn't actually say when it was "sent", only when it was "issued" (is that the same?)

    The key sentence in this NTK is not really grammatically correct: "If you do not provide the correct address for service of the driver, pass the notice on to the driver, we will pursue you...".

    The big one for me is that the PoFA states the NTK must describe "the circumstances in which the requirement to pay them arose (including the means by which the requirement was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made them payable". Because this is a template, it is vague about this and doesn't explain whether they think a payment was made but vehicle overstayed, or whether no payment was made, or there was some other problem.

    Does PoFA dictate the evidence that they have to include in the NTK? Paragraph 10 suggests that it could, but I guess no amendments have been made to specify e.g., the type of photo that should be included?

    Please open a new thread of your own with details of your parking event. This thread is a repository for examples of NtKs, not for individual cases. Plenty of help available once on your own detailed thread. 

    Understood. My comments, like those elsewhere in this thread, are about the NTK examples posted and whether they are compliant, not about my case.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    I've already brushed the 'scattergun' POFA wording discussion away above.

    This isn't the thread for discussion and I consider this clutching at straws. Can be discussed on your own thread of course and other opinions are available.  Not here though!

    Thanks!

     :) 
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    edited 4 December 2023 at 11:03PM
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    Back on topic, a CP Plus non-POFA NTK with newer wording (end of 2023):
     

    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    Anyone got an OPS one from this year please?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 132,795 Forumite
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    edited 4 December 2023 at 11:05PM
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    Parallel Parking Ltd
    POFA version NTK Nov 2023


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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