Can’t afford to rent or buy - don’t know what to do

RelievedSheff

Luke451 said:

RHemmings said:

Luke451 said:

Well thanks, Leeds vs London? With his salary, he's better off in London then...

Leeds, as other medium UK cities, they miss pretty much everything, like safety, public transport, housing quality etc...

I don't recognise your description of 'medium UK cities'. Certainly, I don't see it as being more dangerous here compared to London at all. Quite the opposite. Public transport - there is less of it here compared to London, but it helps a lot when I can easily live within walking distance from the centre of the city, and do. And, I can buy a house here of a quality that I could never ever achieve in London. I'm not in Leeds, but I have lived in Leeds. 

I assumed that in Leeds you need a car, as in every city in UK, unless Edinburgh or wherever the transport is 24/7.

The car would increase the life cost drammatically, so at that point, I'd be in London (also more jobs available), but all starts from the point that I wouldn't live in Leeds.

Public transport is available in cities other than London!

Skiddaw1

Luke451 said:

Angelica123 said:

I think that for you, being able to change how you view your situation would be as beneficial as actually changing your situation. I honestly think working with a coach or therapist would help you immensely! Their bread and butter is working with people who feel stuck. 

I don't think he needs therapy, or he may accidentally end up with his brain like a marmalade of many years old, after receiving unnecessary prescriptions, and after that, there is no way back... He can forget to realize his expectations in life.

Certainly I suggested to take it with spirit, and to tackle one issue at a time, but therapy... come on...

I can't work out if your posts are deliberately provocative or whether you really do have such an odd and jaundiced perspective on so many things Luke.  What on earth is wrong with suggesting therapy? I said the same several pages back.

Titus_Wadd

I'm a tad frustrated.  

As a Northerner who moved South nearly 30 years ago I wasn't keen on North/South stereotypes.  But there is truth in the chatting at a bus stop or the Tesco queue comments.  We also faced buying a much smaller hime for more money.  And I did have to make more of an effort to be sociable down here, like introducing myself to the neighbours and being the first one to invite them over for a cuppa or a beer.  Lonely folk of London ask yourself when you last struck up a conversation with or befriended an outsider who just moved close to where you live or joined your work? Why should you expect anyone anywhere in the country to befriend you without being open to doing the same on your home turf?

The store that is set by "living in London" with access to shops and theatres/museums...when did you last go to either?  If it's less than twice a year you can stay over and do that from anywhere in the country, or from Scotland, NI or Wales for that matter.

OP wants to be close by his family and old friends...but how many of them came over to visit you and hang out in Norwich?  Why do you only perceive travelling back to the smoke to keep in touch with them?  If they don't think it's worth the journey are you correct in setting store by their friendship, esp. if it is holding you back from moving to achieve your plan for home-ownership or any other long term goal?  By asking these questions I'm not trying to plunge you into fearing that you don't actually have a great social life with genuine friends!  I'm just trying to help you ask a few more questions to help you make a decision.

Once you get to 30+ I'm sure some of your contacts from school or college or early jobs have moved away.  Every 18 year old who moved across the country to start Uni this October will have had at least one cold sweat wondering if they'll hate it, or if no one will speak to them, or whether they should have gone to Uni nearer home to have the safety net of old contacts and family nearby.  I told my son when he left home that he should think about making other folk comfortable enough to talk to him, even if he starts a conversation that doesn't get a good reception.  There's always someone who will chat back, it just requires effort.  I don't doubt that it seems more difficult at 35 than it might have at 18, but I'm still doing it in my 60s and I'm losing more friends to old age and cancer than I used to so I need to keep going, to keep making friends.

My Mum (born in 1925) was the first person in her family to go to Uni (during WW2 there were few male students to pair up with), when she did marry her in-laws expected her to give up working saying she needed to "Cut according to her cloth" meaning adjust to her budget to reduced income.  Her reply was "I'm just making more cloth".  In your mid-30s you are master of your own destiny and being single you can take risks like taking a slight pay-cut to live somewhere cheaper.  Once you are tied to a location or job because of a partner's career or because you have to keep a roof over your family's head it gets harder to take risks, not easier.  

All I would say is be prepared to take another risk: what does it matter if you meet your future life partner whilst still living at home, who gives a monkey's chuff?  Probably not your soul-mate!  Tear yourself away from the smoke and maybe visit a few towns around the country, apply for a few jobs further afield and posts that are more advanced that your current post or in a parallel field and see what happens.  Take a risk!  Push yourself because even a very minor "win" will help with your self-esteem and depression.  Life is too effing short to stay at home with Mum and Dad doing the same job until you retire.  You won't regret the odd set back or failure 30 years on but, you will reflect on missed opportunities.

I was medically retired at 40 but I can't dwell on all of the "what might have beens", I just have to keep on keeping on.

I replied towards the end of your previous thread and I would suggest you have a think about all the positive scenarios and suggestions folk have presented; start with something small and achievable.  Spend less time posting about the insurmountable obstacles you believe are in your way because that is making you think negatively which will keep you in a downward spiral.  Make a few minor changes and report back because folk are genuinely trying to help you on here, but it's really down to you.  What changes for the better have you made since Norwich? - I don't need to know, but it could be a starting point for change rather than convincing yourself that the world or the country or the city is hampering you achieving your fullest potential. 

RAS

Luke451 said:

Mark_Glasses said:

I come from Leeds and live in London and I have no desire to move back to Leeds. I've heard Leeds being called the London of the north before but it really isn't. I can see the appeal of the city centre but most of the residential areas are grim. The nicer residential areas are expensive so defeats the point of moving out of London to save money. The public transport is rubbish and as a result the roads are congested.

The area of Leeds I come from wasn't too bad crime wise when I was growing up but it's got worse since I've been away. Some of the people I knew from there as a kid have moved to Bradford so it must be getting bad...........

Well thanks, Leeds vs London? With his salary, he's better off in London then...

Leeds, as other medium UK cities, they miss pretty much everything, like safety, public transport, housing quality etc...

I made precisely the opposite calculation. I needed a much lower income to live the same life style and there are only so many artistic events one can attend at the same time.

And I've always had good public transport. OK not quite as good as London because the Government has never invested anything like the sums given to London transport infrastructure but I've got 10 buses an hour daytime and 6 in the evenings. And for many years I lived with a decent walk of the town centre so clubbing and getting home was a doddle.

And I don't need to wash the grime off myself when I get home after work.

P.S, there's a good many cities within 2 hours train journey of London, depending on which London station you need to arrive at.

RHemmings

Luke451 said: 

I assumed that in Leeds you need a car, as in every city in UK, unless Edinburgh or wherever the transport is 24/7.

The car would increase the life cost drammatically, so at that point, I'd be in London (also more jobs available), but all starts from the point that I wouldn't live in Leeds.

I didn't have a car in Leeds, but again I lived within easy walking distance of the city centre. I think I didn't even have a bicycle when I lived there. (I do now). And, a reasonable walking distance from the train station. This was before Uber and similar firms, which make a big difference.

Given it's far enough in the past, I think I can safely reveal that I lived in Lyddon Terrace in Woodhouse, Leeds. Quite convenient.  

I haven't owned a car for 30 years now. I'm considering getting one next year. Maybe. But, I don't need one. 

Clearly if you don't want to live in Leeds, you don't want to live in Leeds. I'm remembering that scene in Doctor Who when Donna Noble expresses outrage at being billeted in Leeds. I can't find a clip of her reaction when she hears that she's going to Leeds. 

https://youtu.be/acnPJSXxtWk

EDIT: Found it:

https://youtu.be/s5kxNhuJwk8

When I was last in London, riding some buses, I was looking at houses and other accommodation. And, there are a lot of terrible places to live in London.

For my sins, I have lived in this building:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5763091,-0.2945351,3a,75y,121.6h,95.94t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sVu4wCvSq-kSQhbd5oX8ong!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?panoid=Vu4wCvSq-kSQhbd5oX8ong&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&w=203&h=100&yaw=90.07762&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

And I can assure people that I have never lived anywhere in the UK outside London as bad as that. 

I had a look for relatively (compared to local values) expensive houses in Leeds, and there are plenty of ones that look pretty nice. 

RHemmings

Here's a video where someone explains why they decided to stay in Leeds after finishing at University.

https://youtu.be/_6_VVLgrgFI

Longwalker

Ok so I left London 17 years ago and cities do change dramatically but we knew our neighbours, we were invited in for cuppas, round for drinks, met up in pubs and restaurants , gave gifts , shared what we had etc etc etc.

We deliberately bought our first house on an ex council estate with an elderly population, we could afford it ( just) we had the know how to bring the property up to scratch and we weren't going to be worrying about feral kids 

The commute to work was hard. We had a tube and mainline station and were well serviced by buses, hell I never learned to drive till we moved into the middle of nowhere with no transport at all - the A3 is notorious for being a traffic jam

London has always been a transient city. When I was born there were lots of Poles, then the windrush , then the Pakistanis , the Indians, the Vietnese, these people came, settled in areas, Brixton was Black, Tooting was Indian/Pakistani, Earls court Australian and slowly as they made their money, they moved and these areas have changed 

And Londoners moved, south and we moved to Surrey and North - Essex  

Stereotypical but not so short of the mark  

London is London, its not the worse, its certainly not the best place to live 

All my peers have left London now, other then my sister, she stays as shes in HA accommodation and never got on the property ladder. Notting Hill, loves it for the community, hates it for the carnival but has raised a family and is a well known figure in the community 

There is community in London , I knew my neighbours when growing up and I knew them as an adult in three different parts of London

We now do weekend breaks to various UK cities, transport is always good ( we have to fly in so need public transport ), often better then London. The cities I mentioned previously are absolutely buzzing, full of life, full of opportunities , yet still have their areas of communities, where people settle , build friendships and relationships. They all have their hot spots for sure, places you dont want to be wandering around but thats every city all over the world 

Luke obviously hates London with a passion, thats his choice, hes not describing the London I spent 42 years in, and not in any of the best locations. I admit now that I do feel a tad more wary when I do return, but 17 years of rural living has me feeling like that in any city in the UK

Luke451

RelievedSheff said:

Luke451 said:

RHemmings said:

Luke451 said:

Well thanks, Leeds vs London? With his salary, he's better off in London then...

Leeds, as other medium UK cities, they miss pretty much everything, like safety, public transport, housing quality etc...

I don't recognise your description of 'medium UK cities'. Certainly, I don't see it as being more dangerous here compared to London at all. Quite the opposite. Public transport - there is less of it here compared to London, but it helps a lot when I can easily live within walking distance from the centre of the city, and do. And, I can buy a house here of a quality that I could never ever achieve in London. I'm not in Leeds, but I have lived in Leeds. 

I assumed that in Leeds you need a car, as in every city in UK, unless Edinburgh or wherever the transport is 24/7.

The car would increase the life cost drammatically, so at that point, I'd be in London (also more jobs available), but all starts from the point that I wouldn't live in Leeds.

Public transport is available in cities other than London!

Mmm, no, absolutely not, maybe just major cities like Manchester, Cardiff, Birmingham, Edinburgh have some decent transportation.

But not London, actually no way, it's not even properly 24/7! Always lower level than EU cities, and I hate EU for many reasons.

Luke451

Titus_Wadd said:

I'm a tad frustrated.  

As a Northerner who moved South nearly 30 years ago I wasn't keen on North/South stereotypes.  But there is truth in the chatting at a bus stop or the Tesco queue comments.  We also faced buying a much smaller hime for more money.  And I did have to make more of an effort to be sociable down here, like introducing myself to the neighbours and being the first one to invite them over for a cuppa or a beer.  Lonely folk of London ask yourself when you last struck up a conversation with or befriended an outsider who just moved close to where you live or joined your work? Why should you expect anyone anywhere in the country to befriend you without being open to doing the same on your home turf?

The store that is set by "living in London" with access to shops and theatres/museums...when did you last go to either?  If it's less than twice a year you can stay over and do that from anywhere in the country, or from Scotland, NI or Wales for that matter.

OP wants to be close by his family and old friends...but how many of them came over to visit you and hang out in Norwich?  Why do you only perceive travelling back to the smoke to keep in touch with them?  If they don't think it's worth the journey are you correct in setting store by their friendship, esp. if it is holding you back from moving to achieve your plan for home-ownership or any other long term goal?  By asking these questions I'm not trying to plunge you into fearing that you don't actually have a great social life with genuine friends!  I'm just trying to help you ask a few more questions to help you make a decision.

Once you get to 30+ I'm sure some of your contacts from school or college or early jobs have moved away.  Every 18 year old who moved across the country to start Uni this October will have had at least one cold sweat wondering if they'll hate it, or if no one will speak to them, or whether they should have gone to Uni nearer home to have the safety net of old contacts and family nearby.  I told my son when he left home that he should think about making other folk comfortable enough to talk to him, even if he starts a conversation that doesn't get a good reception.  There's always someone who will chat back, it just requires effort.  I don't doubt that it seems more difficult at 35 than it might have at 18, but I'm still doing it in my 60s and I'm losing more friends to old age and cancer than I used to so I need to keep going, to keep making friends.

My Mum (born in 1925) was the first person in her family to go to Uni (during WW2 there were few male students to pair up with), when she did marry her in-laws expected her to give up working saying she needed to "Cut according to her cloth" meaning adjust to her budget to reduced income.  Her reply was "I'm just making more cloth".  In your mid-30s you are master of your own destiny and being single you can take risks like taking a slight pay-cut to live somewhere cheaper.  Once you are tied to a location or job because of a partner's career or because you have to keep a roof over your family's head it gets harder to take risks, not easier.  

All I would say is be prepared to take another risk: what does it matter if you meet your future life partner whilst still living at home, who gives a monkey's chuff?  Probably not your soul-mate!  Tear yourself away from the smoke and maybe visit a few towns around the country, apply for a few jobs further afield and posts that are more advanced that your current post or in a parallel field and see what happens.  Take a risk!  Push yourself because even a very minor "win" will help with your self-esteem and depression.  Life is too effing short to stay at home with Mum and Dad doing the same job until you retire.  You won't regret the odd set back or failure 30 years on but, you will reflect on missed opportunities.

I was medically retired at 40 but I can't dwell on all of the "what might have beens", I just have to keep on keeping on.

I replied towards the end of your previous thread and I would suggest you have a think about all the positive scenarios and suggestions folk have presented; start with something small and achievable.  Spend less time posting about the insurmountable obstacles you believe are in your way because that is making you think negatively which will keep you in a downward spiral.  Make a few minor changes and report back because folk are genuinely trying to help you on here, but it's really down to you.  What changes for the better have you made since Norwich? - I don't need to know, but it could be a starting point for change rather than convincing yourself that the world or the country or the city is hampering you achieving your fullest potential. 

Unfortunately, Norwich is not for a young person, that's why he doesn't want to evaluate to be far away from London, he got the wrong experience far away from London, I think it wouldn't be a problem for him to be in Birmingham for example, much more affordable, nice, quite historical, vibrant and easy reach for a weekend trip to London and so much to do around if he has the car (I mean the Peaks, Wales etc).

Luke451

RAS said:

Luke451 said:

Mark_Glasses said:

I come from Leeds and live in London and I have no desire to move back to Leeds. I've heard Leeds being called the London of the north before but it really isn't. I can see the appeal of the city centre but most of the residential areas are grim. The nicer residential areas are expensive so defeats the point of moving out of London to save money. The public transport is rubbish and as a result the roads are congested.

The area of Leeds I come from wasn't too bad crime wise when I was growing up but it's got worse since I've been away. Some of the people I knew from there as a kid have moved to Bradford so it must be getting bad...........

Well thanks, Leeds vs London? With his salary, he's better off in London then...

Leeds, as other medium UK cities, they miss pretty much everything, like safety, public transport, housing quality etc...

I made precisely the opposite calculation. I needed a much lower income to live the same life style and there are only so many artistic events one can attend at the same time.

And I've always had good public transport. OK not quite as good as London because the Government has never invested anything like the sums given to London transport infrastructure but I've got 10 buses an hour daytime and 6 in the evenings. And for many years I lived with a decent walk of the town centre so clubbing and getting home was a doddle.

And I don't need to wash the grime off myself when I get home after work.

P.S, there's a good many cities within 2 hours train journey of London, depending on which London station you need to arrive at.

Right, sorry, I wanted to refer to the cities around London, or in commute zone for 5 days of work in London.

Certainly Leeds offer more living space, proper garden etc, or bigger flats, but the services are not great, unless you live in the best areas and literally in the city centre, on that I agree .