My energy provider is pushing me to have a smart meter

Netexporter

I don't need to read it because if there were rolling blackouts I would be subject to being cut off whatever type of meter I have. However, by having a smart meter I am reducing the risk of rolling blackouts. I won't get cut off remotely because I monitor my account, so am never in default. In the meantime I'm paying half the unit price of somebody on the SVT without any capital investment.

badmemory

Gerry1 said:

Netexporter said:

What the conspiracy theorists forget is that the suppliers are in the business of selling energy. If they cut you off that make no profit, assuming there is no profit element in the daily charge.

@Netexporter Not a case of the suppliers choosing to cut you off, there will be times when the supply simply can't meet the demand even with 3% and 6% voltage reductions.

Have you not noticed the little letter tucked away on your bill showing you which disconnection rota you're on, or is that just another conspiracy theory?

I have mine is L.  They are still talking about even more power cuts this year but maybe not as many as they originally thought. 

Another conspiracy theory for you.  Who is to say when we all have smart meters that they will not say if you pay us a membership fee of whatever a month we will keep your lights & phone on.  The annoying thing is I would have to pay because BT are doing the dirty here before the end of the year & the mobile signal is U S.

matt_drummer

Gerry1 said:

You haven't read the specification, have you?

Thought not.

Best to be fully informed before commenting.

A lot of us know the specification and the capabilities.

So what?

Why would somebody selling something want to stop me buying something?

If they have run out for me, they will have run out for you too.

If they need to charge more at peak times then that is how it is.

If they can't tell what you have used at peak times then they will just have to charge you peak rate 24 hours a day until they can tell when you used energy.

If they need to limit consumption they'll be able to do that with smart meters.

If you don't have a smart meter and they cannot limit your power then they'll just chop it completely.


I cannot think why you are convinced that you'll be left out of it just because you don't have a smart meter. 

matt_drummer

Gerry1 said:

@Netexporter Not a case of the suppliers choosing to cut you off, there will be times when the supply simply can't meet the demand even with 3% and 6% voltage reductions.

Have you not noticed the little letter tucked away on your bill showing you which disconnection rota you're on, or is that just another conspiracy theory?

How will a voltage reduction improve supply?

We consume kW (volts x amps).

If the voltage goes down the amps go up.

My 1 kW device draws 1 kW whether it is at 220 volts or 250 volts.

Gerry1

matt_drummer said:

Gerry1 said:

@Netexporter Not a case of the suppliers choosing to cut you off, there will be times when the supply simply can't meet the demand even with 3% and 6% voltage reductions.

Have you not noticed the little letter tucked away on your bill showing you which disconnection rota you're on, or is that just another conspiracy theory?

How will a voltage reduction improve supply?

We consume kW (volts x amps).

If the voltage goes down the amps go up.

My 1 kW device draws 1 kW whether it is at 220 volts or 250 volts.

I'm afraid you've got it wrong again, just as you did with there being a Deemed Contract if you move into a property but never use any gas.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80320908/#Comment_80320908

If you were familiar with Ohm's Law you would know that P = V^2/ R where P=Power, V=Voltage and R=Resistance.  So your 1kW 250V panel heater will become a 774W heater at 220V.

In times of severe system stress, National Grid can call on network operators to reduce demand through widespread application of voltage reduction in two steps; - 3% and -6%.

These are applied by sending signals to the automatic voltage control equipment at grid or primary substations which control the on load tap changers fitted to 33/11 kV and higher voltage distribution network transformers.

https://www.nationalgrid.co.uk/downloads/5203/final-south-wales-voltage-reduction.pdf

QrizB

For anyone who's interested, here is the SMETS2 specification:

https://smartenergycodecompany.co.uk/document-download-centre/download-info/smets2-v5-0-draft-3/

deano2099

[Deleted User] said:

deano2099 said:

Miser1964 said:

They know the grid will collapse sooner rather than later and are desperate to roll-out 'smart' meters to use dynamic pricing to try and reduce demand when consumers see the surge tariff is £1/kWh. 

That's an interesting point actually. I'm a big fan of smart meters and I do think the good outweighs the bad, but there's a point here that in current emergency situations, the UK has a system of geographical rolling blackouts that is broadly designed to be "fair". Doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, the electric goes out in this part of the map at these times.
I suspect, with smart metering, you're right that that's exactly what will happen. They'll increase the unit price in emergencies to cut demand. Meaning the rich can continue to get power while the poor will face longer periods of power cuts.
I know there's other smart meter fans here, what do you think? Valid concern?

Complete and utter rubbish. Suppliers cannot just increase prices unless the contract that was signed allows them to do so. For those on a variable tariff, suppliers have to notify consumers of any price increase with enough time to allow them to switch to another tariff or supplier. The upper limit of all SVTs is constrained by the Ofgem Cap. 

Yes, there are some people on this forum who have signed up to a contract which has a £1 per kWh Cap limit. Agile for example has a very clear formula based on wholesale prices so there is no hidden agenda here.

We do love our conspiracy theories on this forum.

Ahh. That disappointing. Unnecessarily rude. And you've always been one of the better posters on here. Ah well.

MiserlyMartin

I'm suspicious of the number of posts here that seem to be dead set on everyone being forced to have a smart meter, in a very forceful way. I don't see what it has to do with them should people want to hang on to their old dumb meters. They do still fit dumb meters, I had my smart meter taken out by my supplier thank goodness. They still make them, you can buy them readily from electrical suppliers, so if a electricity supplier tells you they can't get them anymore, don't accept that rubbish.

deano2099

Honestly if you read the post, I'm not talking about suppliers. Everyone going on about suppliers is chasing a red herring. This is about the emergency response for an energy shortfall, which sits with the government and the regulator. They can essentially do whatever they want if they pass the regulation for it. 

The current emergency system is a "fair" one. But also has its share of issues (including requiring cutting power to those who may have urgent need for it). I genuinely don't think once smart meters are universal, that we won't switch to using disconnections via those as the new emergency system - unless there's some practical reason it can't be done - and I wouldn't trust the current powers that be not introduce a money-driven system where you can pay to exempted, in those cases.

I'm also not sure on the mechanics of the rolling blackout system either. Would it be possible to cut dumb meters and those on smart meters that haven't paid a premium? Or would you have to leave the dumb meters on in that case?

deano2099

matt_drummer said:

If they need to limit consumption they'll be able to do that with smart meters.

If you don't have a smart meter and they cannot limit your power then they'll just chop it completely.

That's the bit I was hoping someone smarter than me could explain - can that be done? Can you use those smart meters to limit the consumption of everyone in the street, while also cutting off the supply to the one person in the street with a dumb meter?
Because my lay-understanding would be the power for the area is either on or off first, and then the smart meter can control if an individual property is on or off, but it comes after that. If the power for the area is off, the smart meter can't do anything. If it's on, nothing can stop those without a smart meter getting power.
That may be complete nonsense, but I suspect it's not or someone would have said by now.