Can smart meter be fitted without my permission and when not present at the property?

Jonboy_1984

Zandoni said:

I think smart meters are a complete and utter waste of money, scrapping perfectly good working meters is scandalous. Unfortunately though when a meter meets it's ficticious end of life they will be fitted.

Is that scandalous in the same way the weights and measures acts states shop scales and petrol pumps  etc that measure commodities for sale (via devices with moving parts provided by the vendor) must be kept accurate, or some other definition of scandalous???

[Deleted User]

Zandoni said:

I think smart meters are a complete and utter waste of money, scrapping perfectly good working meters is scandalous. Unfortunately though when a meter meets it's ficticious end of life they will be fitted.

Before coming to such a profound judgement, you really need to sit back and try to understand why Nations across the World are moving towards what is known as a Smart Grid. Smart meters are a key component of a Smart Grid.

https://www.iea.org/energy-system/electricity/smart-grids

There is nothing ficticious about meter certification. Meters have had a certified life imposed on them by Government for decades and were replaced with minimum public fuss.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electricity-meter-certification

 

Zandoni

Jonboy_1984 said:

Zandoni said:

I think smart meters are a complete and utter waste of money, scrapping perfectly good working meters is scandalous. Unfortunately though when a meter meets it's ficticious end of life they will be fitted.

Is that scandalous in the same way the weights and measures acts states shop scales and petrol pumps  etc that measure commodities for sale (via devices with moving parts provided by the vendor) must be kept accurate, or some other definition of scandalous???

I can tell you as a fact that the diaphragm meters that were replaced are far more accurate than the electronic meters that are now fitted. I know we have to move with the times but they brought in smart meters far too early and cost the bill payer so much more money.

km1500

actually this is incorrect - diaphragm gas meters become inaccurate over time because the diaphram loses its elasticity

modern smart meters are far more accurate and their accuracy does not deteriorate over time like diaphragm meters do

Zandoni

Dolor said:

There is nothing ficticious about meter certification. Meters have had a certified life imposed on them by Government for decades and were replaced with minimum public fuss.

The certified life of a gas meter has only been introduced since we started making electonic meters, if it existed before with mechinical meters it certainly wasn't enforced. Diaphragm meters are more accurate and will remain so far longer than electronic meters.

Smart meters were rushed out far too quickly, before they'd ironed out all their faults, in my day they wouldn't have been approved.

I know I sound like a luddite but gas is a very hard to measure accurately and the equpment that does it needs to be thoroughly tested.

 

[Deleted User]

Zandoni said:

Jonboy_1984 said:

Zandoni said:

I think smart meters are a complete and utter waste of money, scrapping perfectly good working meters is scandalous. Unfortunately though when a meter meets it's ficticious end of life they will be fitted.

Is that scandalous in the same way the weights and measures acts states shop scales and petrol pumps  etc that measure commodities for sale (via devices with moving parts provided by the vendor) must be kept accurate, or some other definition of scandalous???

I can tell you as a fact that the diaphragm meters that were replaced are far more accurate than the electronic meters that are now fitted. I know we have to move with the times but they brought in smart meters far too early and cost the bill payer so much more money.

Again if you bothered to do any research you would see that the NAO has concluded that the cost of the smart meter programme will be higher than the anticipated £12.6Bn; however, given recent increases in the cost of energy, the savings will also be significantly higher. You need to think ‘future’ not the ‘present’.  The savings are based on what we would have paid for energy in future years without smart meters compared to what we might be paying with smart meters.

The whole concept a Smart Grid is better visibility of consumer demand against constantly renewable supply. If the Grid doesn’t have access to profiled usage then it has to have expensive standby generation on call. This has to be paid for even if it is not used/needed.

Zandoni

km1500 said:

actually this is incorrect - diaphragm gas meters become inaccurate over time because the diaphram loses its elasticity

modern smart meters are far more accurate and their accuracy does not deteriorate over time like diaphragm meters do

Gas meters used to have leather diaphragms which worked fine with coal gas as it had more moisture than natural gas. Depending on the area fitted some of those really old meters were subject to diaphragm shrinkage which could lead to the meters running a few percent fast. There was a massive programme that started in the 1970s to replace meters with synthetic diaphragms, these were made in this country and were very accurate and cheap. When electonic meters were first introduce in 90s they were plagued with problems, counting up on their own for instance.

A diaphragm would not leave the factory if it was over +/- 1% this couldn't be achieved with electronic. Hopefully they have improved now but I'm not convinced they are monitored so closely nowadays.

[Deleted User]

Zandoni said:

km1500 said:

actually this is incorrect - diaphragm gas meters become inaccurate over time because the diaphram loses its elasticity

modern smart meters are far more accurate and their accuracy does not deteriorate over time like diaphragm meters do

Gas meters used to have leather diaphragms which worked fine with coal gas as it had more moisture than natural gas. Depending on the area fitted some of those really old meters were subject to diaphragm shrinkage which could lead to the meters running a few percent fast. There was a massive programme that started in the 1970s to replace meters with synthetic diaphragms, these were made in this country and were very accurate and cheap. When electonic meters were first introduce in 90s they were plagued with problems, counting up on their own for instance.

A diaphragm would not leave the factory if it was over +/- 1% this couldn't be achieved with electronic. Hopefully they have improved now but I'm not convinced they are monitored so closely nowadays.

What has any if this to do with smart metering?

Zandoni

[Deleted User] said:

Zandoni said:

Jonboy_1984 said:

Zandoni said:

I think smart meters are a complete and utter waste of money, scrapping perfectly good working meters is scandalous. Unfortunately though when a meter meets it's ficticious end of life they will be fitted.

Is that scandalous in the same way the weights and measures acts states shop scales and petrol pumps  etc that measure commodities for sale (via devices with moving parts provided by the vendor) must be kept accurate, or some other definition of scandalous???

I can tell you as a fact that the diaphragm meters that were replaced are far more accurate than the electronic meters that are now fitted. I know we have to move with the times but they brought in smart meters far too early and cost the bill payer so much more money.

Again if you bothered to do any research you would see that the NAO has concluded that the cost of the smart meter programme will be higher than the anticipated £12.6Bn; however, given recent increases in the cost of energy, the savings will also be significantly higher. You need to think ‘future’ not the ‘present’.  The savings are based on what we would have paid for energy in future years without smart meters compared to what we might be paying with smart meters.

The whole concept a Smart Grid is better visibility of consumer demand against constantly renewable supply. If the Grid doesn’t have access to profiled usage then it has to have expensive standby generation on call. This has to be paid for even if it is not used/needed.

I don't believe having smart meters will give them anymore help to predict usage than they already know. It will cost the consumers billions and it will never pay for itself.

Zandoni

[Deleted User] said:

Zandoni said:

km1500 said:

actually this is incorrect - diaphragm gas meters become inaccurate over time because the diaphram loses its elasticity

modern smart meters are far more accurate and their accuracy does not deteriorate over time like diaphragm meters do

Gas meters used to have leather diaphragms which worked fine with coal gas as it had more moisture than natural gas. Depending on the area fitted some of those really old meters were subject to diaphragm shrinkage which could lead to the meters running a few percent fast. There was a massive programme that started in the 1970s to replace meters with synthetic diaphragms, these were made in this country and were very accurate and cheap. When electonic meters were first introduce in 90s they were plagued with problems, counting up on their own for instance.

A diaphragm would not leave the factory if it was over +/- 1% this couldn't be achieved with electronic. Hopefully they have improved now but I'm not convinced they are monitored so closely nowadays.

What has any if this to do with smart metering?

I was answering km1500 who disputed my statement, smart meters accuracy is still important.