Can smart meter be fitted without my permission and when not present at the property?

[Deleted User]

Shame about the cost though 

A recent report to Parliament has acknowledged that the cost of the smart meter rollout will be higher than £12.6Bn. However, it also concludes that as energy costs are much higher than they were, the amount of savings that smart metering will accrue will also be significantly more than initially forecast.

Scot_39

I like my smart meter - apart from the Apr glitch by Eon for many customers - taking 3.5 months to fix price information after reclassifying their tariffs, it has worked well enough since day 1.  And is now as smets1 DCC integrated.

A useful visual reminder of my 3 off peak / peak periods daily on e10.

But with C29m homes c4m off grid gas.
So say 44 million smart meters required.  Around say 33m(*) installed so far.

(*) Last month hit a monthly record of c213,000 installations.  Ovet 32m - althoughvthat includes businesses - as of Mar from gov quote below.

Millions more to do.

12600/33 = £380 per meter.

That's a lot of energy savings expected, even at todays prices.

And don't forget even that shiny new smets2 fitted today will in all likelihood need another comms hub within 10 years when 2g and 3g switch off completes by 2033 currently  in many regions.

https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/2g-sunset-looking-into-the-future-of-connectivity/

Someone's making money - but apart from those on tariffs like agile and tracker in a windy period, it isn't I suspect the majority of consumers at that sort of level in any short time period.

And don't forget we pay that £12.6bn over time, including the declared smart £21 soon to be £17 smart cost in Ofgem cap breakdown (see their press release).

My parents home - now owned by sister - old analogue meter had an over 40yr lifespan. Moved in 68, replaced Dec 22. Most new smart are 15, 20.  So that's already 2-3x the cost.  Add comms hub upgrades, batteries for gas - that do run out on some etc. and that cost climbs even higher.

And the govts own audit figures showed 9% - 3m as of Mar - not functioning as intended 

https://www.nao.org.uk/press-releases/update-on-the-rollout-of-smart-meters/#:~:text=In February 2023, the government,by the end of 2025.

"According to the latest data, 57% – more than 32 million – of all meters in Great Britain are now smart, although around 9% of smart meters – around 3 million – were not working as intended in March 2023."

3m is more than a handful of complaints posted here.

The UK rollout has been a farce - too many players,  not well enough designed and woeful specifications - not fit for purpose as advertised to consumers (including the in home display to advise and help cut use).

40% homes in Scotland are flats - many with remote meter cabinets  had no chance of a working in home display for years due to HAN spec - alt han now available in theory still not available from supllier when brother enquired after yet another go smart mailshot last month.  And no date offered - the operator had to ask not 1 but 2 supervisors before got an answer.

Qyburn

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

ArbitraryRandom

Given the number of apps out there (and the prevalence of smart phones), I struggle to get too worried about a smart meter 'not working as intended' if the problem is the in home display. 

IMO they're nothing but a novelty that take up a plug socket/batteries and should be on request only (for those who don't get on with apps) - no idea how much they cost, but I'd guess most end up in the bin/drawer, so that would be some saving (to manufacture and in time to demonstrate to the occupant). 

matt_drummer

Qyburn said:

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

Sawmills.

I have paid a sawmill not to produce for us, it was cheaper to pay the wages than buy the product and sell at a loss.

Each days wages were less than we would lose on selling each days production.

It was a complicated arrangement whereby we were the only customer .of the sawmill and owned some machinery and had control of production. The costs were all going to fall on us whatever happened.

I could give you other examples where a similar situation could arise.

MattMattMattUK

Qyburn said:

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

Farming, farmers are sometimes paid not to plant crops in a field, other times they are paid for their product but it is destroyed rather than used to prop up certain markets (wine being the most notable, subsidised production in Europe, bought by the government and destroyed rather than bringing the market price down) but it also happens with other foodstuffs. 

[Deleted User]

Qyburn said:

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

Possibly, but if you don’t pay constraint payments companies will not invest. Posters keep alluding to the fact that energy companies should be nationalised but I have yet to see any cogent plan as to how we ( taxpayers) would pay for it. 

MattMattMattUK

[Deleted User] said:

Qyburn said:

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

Possibly, but if you don’t pay constraint payments companies will not invest. Posters keep alluding to the fact that energy companies should be nationalised but I have yet to see any cogent plan as to how we ( taxpayers) would pay for it. 

Many of them seem to think that the private property should be appropriated. Personally I am in favour of the government investing in energy production, specifically building, owning and operating several hundred nuclear reactors so we can transition all our energy needs away from fossil fuels.

powerful_Rogue

2 hours of free electricity yesterday and another 2 hours free today thanks to Octupus Powerups.

Horrible things these smart meters letting me charge my home batteries and EV along with running the dishwasher and washing machine for free!

[Deleted User]

MattMattMattUK said:

[Deleted User] said:

Qyburn said:

Dolor said:

Let me give you one example of the challenges that Grid managers face. Today is a windy day in many parts of the Country. Wind farms are producing energy in an amount that the Grid cannot cope with. Grid managers have 2 options: one, pay wind farm operators to turn off their turbines until the wind speed drops, 

That's one of the stupidest things about the privatised energy system. What other industry pays companies to stop producing when their product isn't needed?

Possibly, but if you don’t pay constraint payments companies will not invest. Posters keep alluding to the fact that energy companies should be nationalised but I have yet to see any cogent plan as to how we ( taxpayers) would pay for it. 

Many of them seem to think that the private property should be appropriated. Personally I am in favour of the government investing in energy production, specifically building, owning and operating several hundred nuclear reactors so we can transition all our energy needs away from fossil fuels.

Sadly, as HS2 and smart metering demonstrates , Governments and civil servants are not very good at managing complex projects. Several hundred nuclear reactors all sound great in theory but everyone of them would pose ‘a real and ever present danger’ to those living near to them. In this regard, they would all need extremely expensive security and protection.