Can smart meter be fitted without my permission and when not present at the property?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

There are many costs to the roll out and many benefits, ultimately between the period of 2013 and 2035 it is estimated there will be costs of £13.5 billion and benefits of £19.5 billion so a positive of £6 billion.

These costs and benefits are broken down in to many forms but are both compared to counterfactual world where the roll out didn't occur with government intervention. 

£6.2 billion in benefits is allocated to reductions in domestic consumption due to IHDs, accurate billing, advice and campaigns.

The report doesn't appear to break those 4 down and advice or campaigns isn't specifically related to smart meters, i.e they could occur independently. 

Whether issues such as a greater awareness of our impact on the planet was a balanced factor in both worlds I can't tell but one issue is the report was conducted on the basis of 2011 prices. The sudden increase in energy costs will have certainly affected consumption with many household and businesses looking to cut waste or excessive consumption, whether that would put a dent in the benefits mentioned I don't know. 

Ultimately smart meters are here, like everything else there will be incentives to take part during the early days, once they are common place the incentives will be scaled back. 

I understand you can be on a variable tariff and save money now by using energy at off peak periods but with a roll out of electric vehicles, something that can commonly use energy at night, and more people spreading their general use that benefit to the consumer in terms of unit cost will, presumably, decline. 

I would assume that ultimately everyone will end up being in roughly the same position as they are now, as there is certain element of profit required in the process, but by taking part early you can save some money today by using off peak energy. 

SAC2334

MultiFuelBurner said:

I have largely given up trying to convince people to have smart meters.

Even got a neighbour who is into their technology and they still won't get one.

They are paying over 30p kWh whilst we are paying 18p kWh. 

Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

I suspect that if you are paying 18 p a kwh you are on Octopus Tracker. If so, then this tariff does not need to have smart meters to operate this tariff . I ve been on it from last January on dumb meters .From what I understand even those with working smart meters , Octopus don t use the smart meter at all in billing purposes . This excellent tariff does not need smart meters.

Dolor pointed out exactly what is the worst thing about smart meters is that the public , for the first time in metering in the UK were given the choice to refuse them . A huge mistake, along with making the suppliers be responsible for fitting them rather than Cadent or the DNO s   This was only given by the Tory Government who took over from the Labour Government who were in power when the early smart meters were being installed at a very fast rate by British Gas . The Labour Government made these first early smart meters madatory .Ed Milliband was the then Energy Secretary at the time. 
As an on the job meter reader back in 2011 when BG were installing their (unratified ) smart meters at a such a speed that fitters were putting in over 20 a day and making big earnings on bonus . They could do 20 meter installs in one street a day and I never heard of any complaints or refusals as the public then accepted that the suppliers had their rights of entry without any people refusing at all. 
One thing is certain about those (probably over a million ) who are fiddling their meters , that they will have to be dragged kicking and screaming by suppliers to  a court order to gain forced entry  access to their meters to exchange them. They are the biggest problem not the smart meter dissenters. 

Spoonie_Turtle

SAC2334 said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

I have largely given up trying to convince people to have smart meters.

Even got a neighbour who is into their technology and they still won't get one.

They are paying over 30p kWh whilst we are paying 18p kWh. 

Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

I suspect that if you are paying 18 p a kwh you are on Octopus Tracker. If so, then this tariff does not need to have smart meters to operate this tariff . I ve been on it from last January on dumb meters .From what I understand even those with working smart meters , Octopus don t use the smart meter at all in billing purposes . This excellent tariff does not need smart meters.

It does now.  Whichever month it was earlier this year, Octopus changed the rules to require one to go onto the tariff.

QrizB

cannugec5 said:

And here is me. I definitely want a smart meter. In fact we have a smart meter. But we have no communication hub as,at installation in the spring it wouldn’t work. None in the village did.

Do you really have no comms hub fitted to your smart meter? That would be unusual.

Or is one fitted, but not communicating?

cannugec5 said:

Now we have a neighbour with a working Smart meter installed last month.

Are they a near neighbour, near enough that a wifi signal would reach from your house to theirs? If so, mesh networking might get your meter to talk to theirs (and then to the WAN) even if there's no direct signal in your house.

(Yes, I know that the smart meter mesh network doesn't use wifi. It's just a way to explain what I mean.)

Qyburn

SAC2334 said:

I suspect that if you are paying 18 p a kwh you are on Octopus Tracker. If so, then this tariff does not need to have smart meters to operate this tariff . I ve been on it from last January on dumb meters .From what I understand even those with working smart meters , Octopus don t use the smart meter at all in billing purposes . 

They do. Each day's actual consumption is billed at that day's price. The total bill uses the total consumption data, not the index readings.

markin

Smart meters roll out uk wide really wasn't needed and they are likely over complicated making them cost a lot, Demand can or probably is monitored at street sub station.

Smart EV chargers use the internet anyway.

People that want or need them could request them, No need to force them on people unless you plan to then force people to stop using power (surge pricing) when they want.

Octopus could run Agile ect with a £50, Homeowner plug in unit that has a simple CT clamp and sender.

PennineAcute

Qyburn said:

SAC2334 said:

I suspect that if you are paying 18 p a kwh you are on Octopus Tracker. If so, then this tariff does not need to have smart meters to operate this tariff . I ve been on it from last January on dumb meters .From what I understand even those with working smart meters , Octopus don t use the smart meter at all in billing purposes . 

They do. Each day's actual consumption is billed at that day's price. The total bill uses the total consumption data, not the index readings.

And if they fail to receive the readings, they bill you for the mean daily cost and the mean daily kWh (either given or estimated) in the billing period.  If you SM fails, they do not require you to leave the tariff.

cannugec5

QrizB said:

cannugec5 said: he

And here is me. I definitely want a smart meter. In fact we have a smart meter. But we have no communication hub as,at installation in the spring it wouldn’t work. None in the village did.

Do you really have no comms hub fitted to your smart meter? That would be unusual.

Or is one fitted, but not communicating?

cannugec5 said:

Now we have a neighbour with a working Smart meter installed last month.

Are they a near neighbour, near enough that a wifi signal would reach from your house to theirs? If so, mesh networking might get your meter to talk to theirs (and then to the WAN) even if there's no direct signal in your house.

(Yes, I know that the smart meter mesh network doesn't use wifi. It's just a way to explain what I mean.)

Yes, literally no coms hub. The installer could not get it to communicate. He was here hours as his next visit was already cancelled and said he had spare time. But he could not get it to communicate so took the hub away with him. 

Our neighbour that has a working Smart Meter is not close enough to share Wi-Fi. We have a pub between us with very old, thick stone walls! 

The pub also had a dumb smart meter. 

QrizB

Thanks for that

cannugec5 said:

The pub also had a dumb smart meter. 

If the pub's meter could mesh with the neighbour, yours could then mesh with the pub.
I appreciate that this is starting to get complicated!